Question & Answer

"Foreign."

Stuart: Welcome to another Book More Show. It's Stuart here with Betsy. Betsy Vaughan. How you doing?

Guest: I'm great, Stuart. Great to be here.

Stuart: Fantastic. Okay, this week, as promised, we've got another Q and A show. So through the support mailbox over here at 90 Minute Books, we get quite a few questions. Some of them are obviously very specific to the program, not that interesting to other people, but there's quite a number of them that come through that are pretty generic or equally applicable to people in the 9 Minute Book program or people who are just writing a book themselves. So I thought it'd be worthwhile to dive into a few of those. A couple of them are similar to ones we've answered before, but they're the ones that come up all the time. So I think it's worthwhile running through the answers again. Maybe we'll, we'll address it in a slightly different way this time that might help a few more people. So we'll run through those. Just a reminder for people that we've got some great interview shows coming up over the next couple of weeks or a couple of months rather, by the time we we release them into the feed. So keep an eye out for those. There is some great content in there for people talking about how they're actually using at the moment. The reason I bring it up at the beginning of the show rather than the end is although we're going to go through some of the details, some of the, the Q and A details that people have asked, the majority of the questions that we get are very much around specifics and execution rather than the broader strategy. And the good thing about the interview shows that it's more about broader strategy and how people can actually use the books within their business and really make a difference to the bottom line rather than kind of technical questions of whether it should be answer A or answer B. So I'll try and keep those in mind as we go through trying to keep it more at the strategy level and remind people of how it should be implemented, how it can really be used rather than too much of the details. But obviously details are always good to answer. So yeah, it should be a great show. So how do we want to play this taker? I guess if we start with a couple of questions and then we'll see how that goes. And then if we have enough time at the end, we'll do a quick rapid fire round. But I think some of these will get one question will lead to another. So do you want to give us a bit of just from because you're obviously dealing with quite a lot of the. The questions as they come in. Is there anything that. What's kind of thematically the. Do you get the same common questions coming through?

Guest: We really do. When I go back and I'm talking to our potential clients or even people who've come on board, they do typically ask the same questions. After I explain our process, the specific 90 minute book process of the calls that we do and the recordings and transcription and things like that. People get into things. One of the biggest questions is how long should my book be? Does it need, you know, does it need to be 200 pages? You know, which on our end, from our standpoint. No, it doesn't. So, you know, a lot of our. We have great books that are 30 pages, but we have some excellent books that are 75 pages. So it really, you know, as we explain it to a client, I explain it to a client that we're using their words for the 90 minute book process. So how they speak and what they say is the book. So if there are people who are great speakers and comfortable in the setting of recording, then we tend to see a little bit longer book. If it's somebody that is a little more on the quiet side and doesn't have as much to offer, then the book may not be as long as someone who's a little more confident in their abilities. So there's no right or wrong answer for that one. It is what your content is and what your message is as far as, you know, how many pages it should be. Obviously we need a minimum. You know, there's like a minimum, technically 24 or 25 pages to make the book look good. But other than that, it's free reign on what you're comfortable speaking about.

Stuart: And I think it goes back to as we started, the technical question of or tactic, question of how big it should be versus the strategy of what you're trying to achieve with always comes back to that. So there's. There was one of the shows we did near the beginning of the stream. I'll see if I can find it and put it in show notes. If not, don't worry about it too much because we'll go through it again here. But the strategy of what you're trying to achieve is more important than the technical details of whether it should be 37 pages or 52 pages. So I think if people think in terms of where does this book sit in an overall engagement funnel, then that's a much more valuable way of looking at it. Than I've got this amount of content, do I need more or is it sufficient? So where it sits in a funnel, what the funnel is trying to achieve, what the outcome, the next step that you're trying to get the reader to take all leads into how big should it be? And it's not so much that the size itself is important, it's more. Does it do. Does it do the job that was promised on the COVID So we've talked in the past and the. The Hot Profits book that I've mentioned before, which was written on the back of a conference that we did earlier this year, now talks about the job of work, the next step it's trying to. The next step it's trying to get the readers to take. And the fact that answering one narrow question as deeply as possible is much better than trying to answer three or four questions, but really just only brushing over the surface. So I think if people think in terms of that, how deeply can you answer the one most pressing question from your audience that's relevant to the funnel that the book sits in? So who are you trying to engage? What are their questions? How big is the answer to make the answer as comprehensive as possible? And that gives you the answer of how big the book should be.

Guest: The book should be. Yeah, absolutely.

Stuart: Exactly. I think to your point on the physical dimensions of the books we tend to print, anyone that's seen One of the 90 minute books will recognize the kind of 8 by 5 format. Anything over about 40 pages starts to make that feel quite substantial. 60 pages really makes it sit quite nicely in terms of content. But that physical weight and feel, as long as it's above that kind of bare minimum. So it doesn't feel like a pamphlet. The point is that it really needs to answer the question that the title promises as comprehensively as possible and then give someone a very clear path to. To be able to get more information, to follow up with the next question or the next logical kind of step in the journey. That really is the much better way of thinking about it rather than does it need to be, as I say, 37 pages.

Guest: I think people have this mindset that the book has to be this big, thick book, heavy, weighted, in order to be informative. And from our standpoint, again, all we're looking at is for that call to action. Are they getting what the book says? An easy read and a simple read. And I think that's what most of our books are. They're simple, they're easy. You're not spending weeks reading the book you're getting to the point rather quickly. And so it's hard to change someone's mindset when they're envisioning a book on the shelf. I do a lot of conversations, I do have a lot of conversations about how big the book should be and they want these big fixings. So I think if we just remember that call to action is important and as long as we're delivering, they're delivering what they've promised, you know.

Stuart: And I tell you what I think. Well, I think this, this must have come up in show that we did recently because the words, I can kind of hear them echoing back in my mind as I'm about to say them again. But it's the, the psychological benefit of having a book and giving a physical book to someone to read is that pub has all of this smoke and mirrors and mystery around it. And if someone has a physical book, then the majority of people out there don't think that's something that's achievable for them. So they attribute more value to it than it perhaps deserves in this day and age when on demand printing and publishing is easier than it was even just five years ago. So all of that mystery and the kind of kudos around having something published means that something called a book in air quotes is this thing. And the thing that they're thinking of is how they've interacted with it for the past 40 years of their life. The risk that happens, and this is what we see in this conversation, people come thinking that the physical dimensions of this thing, this lead generation piece that they're creating needs to be a certain amount, a certain size is they're falling victim of exactly the same mental model. That is the benefit of having a book as the, as the writer rather than the reader. So they come into it thinking it needs to be this big thing. Because publishing is this big mystical beast and all of these things happen in the background and it has to be this big chunk of effort and chunk of work. And everyone says that writing a book is the biggest, most pain in the neck thing that they've done in their life. And it was a long slog and a drag. And all of those things that we get the benefit of as writers using a system that is much easier to create and gives us a kind of a scalable leverage, we automatically, or there's a risk of people automatically flicking into the reader's perspective and thinking, okay, it needs to be this big thing. Because what I'm creating is this thing called a book. And it's it's really important, I think that people understand that the job of work of of a book as a lead generation piece, as an engagement piece in the way that we're discussing it, is that it gets in front of people and it makes invisible lead visible by in a very non confrontational way, allowing people to raise their hand. So if you want to write a huge thing, a big authority building piece that is a market leading, well researched tomb of a book that will cause a big crash on a desk, that's all well and good, but what you should weigh it up against is the time and cost to do that, which can run into the tens of thousands of dollars and how much additional business is that going to create versus a smaller wealth or well crafted piece that is quick to execute? It answers one specific question as deeply as possible. It can be the world's leading resource on this one question. It's not like you're trying to make money of this. Sorry, it's not like you're trying to make money from this on Amazon. So it's not like you're charging for the book. The majority of use cases that we talk about, yes, people have it as Amazon because there's a credibility element to it. Yes, people have it on Amazon and charge an amount because if they're physically receiving something then there is a print cost. But the majority of the use cases we talk about is give away a digital copy in return for an email address so that you can start a conversation. Give away a physical copy in return for address details so you can start a conversation. Because the job of work as it sits in the funnel and is it say it's a cookie, to use the eight profit activators term, it's a cookie to get people to raise their hand to start a conversation with you to start to be engaged. It's not that this is your one shot deal to have a publishing deal because you want to make tens of thousands of dollars back in book revenue. So flicking those mental models around, being mindful of on the one hand the benefit that we get as writers because readers see it as an authority piece, or there's some magic that's associated with having a book, not letting ourselves then as the writers fall into the same trap and think it needs to be this big thing, unless there is a use case for you to have that big thing, in which case the nominee book process and the kind of lead generation ideas that we're talking about here probably aren't the best fit. But to be able to quickly create Something that starts a conversation in the most engaging way possible means that you should really focus on the one question which is the most relevant to the funnel that you have in mind to engage someone in the first place. Write something that really, truly gives them value and answers that one particular thing and then gives them a way to continue the conversation and ask the next question or request the next piece of information. Again, I'll put that Hot Topics book which really goes into the four stages of creating this. I'll put a link to that in the show notes just so that people can get a copy. And if people haven't read it already, then that's a great breakdown of these four elements of identifying who you should be engaging, what the subject is that's the most interesting and relevant to them, the, the avatar of the person, what their mindset is, what the situation is in which they're likely to consume the content so that it's as relevant as possible. And then the most important thing, of course, is the next step to lead on to the conversation. So how can you develop that new relationship that you've just started to lead someone towards the logical conclusion that working with you is the best, is the best decision to resolve whatever issue they've got. So the notes for the show, notes for this episode were on episode 15 now. So. So it's going to be 90minutebooks.com podcast 015 and there should be a link there to the hot Prospects book.

Guest: Perfect. That's great. That's a lot of information, but that was fantastic. Hopefully people will realize. No, yeah, hopefully people will take, you know, I like you just something that you, you know, the psychological benefit. I like was thinking about that when you were talking about it and, and I'm going to use that in my. When I'm talking to potential clients going forward. So.

Stuart: And it's a thing that's often overlooked because we get so. And I think this is what happens with every business, which is why it's so easy to look at someone else's business and think about suggestions or ways of doing things. Because you don't. Your mind doesn't immediately jump to the challenges or the constraints around that. You can just focus entirely on the ideation, the creation of the opportunities, rather than worried about the execution. For us, when we're talking to customers or potential customers that phone us up for people who are thinking about writing a book themselves, because those individuals and us in that scenario are the ones that have to execute. They have to do the stuff. It's so easy to kind of flick into execution mode rather than the, the kind of slightly higher level thinking of the opportunity. In strategy, it so often comes down to tactics and it's easy to forget that the same kind of psychological, I'm going to use the word tricks but don't necessarily mean tricks, but cues maybe, or the, the mental models that are so ingrained in, in us as we're brought up in, in the same way. It's very difficult unless you've got an external source kind of trying to snap you out of that, that way of thinking. It's very easy just to fall into the same routine that, that everyone else has got because we're so, for better or worse, we're all so programmed in the same way. We've got the same kind of majority speaking, we've got the same kind of upbringing and the same kind of models of interacting with other people that it's very easy to forget or just slip into the same mode. So yeah, I think we need to get better at sharing that idea with people that we talk to and people who are listening now snap out of the model in which everyone else consumes it and think, okay, what am I trying to achieve? I'm trying to get people who are potentially interested in my product service to raise their hand. So I could either do that by knocking on every door or putting Facebook ads in front of them or specifically asking someone to buy now, buy now, buy now. Or I could offer them something of value to them, start the conversation by giving giving them a very robust answer to a question that they're genuinely asking and start the conversation from there, move forward from there, don't try. And it's not kind of the Glengarry Glen Ross always be closing. It's more like the, the, the Wombat selling book of check moves. At every opportunity there's a move to progress the conversation to the next level. It's, it's a series of steps. It's not just trying to go for the kill straight away. And a small engagement book like this is a great way of starting that conversation in a way that allows you to give something first, to offer value before asking for anything and, and in a very non threatening way, collect the leads of those people who are interested. So step one, collect the leads, then have the conversation.

Guest: Right? Absolutely. You did break that just now. I don't know.

Stuart: So did you know what? Well, sort of behind the scenes on the podcast recording, I tend to record at my end and so it always means I sound great because I'm effectively locally recording and it's just whoever's on the other end sounds. We're at the mercy of their connection.

Guest: Sounds horrible.

Stuart: Yeah. Yes. Won't be too bad. Do you know we had three or four questions that we were talking about before we started and we were wondering whether we do.

Guest: I'm going to ask you about editing. Yes, that's a big question that we get a lot because typically with the traditional 90 minute book, you know, we do the 30 minute recording, the 60 minute recording, and we send those and we just clean up someone's words. That's, that's what we do. So we don't do, you know, our editing is on our end. People want to edit their book, they want to get a hold of it. And from our standpoint, our editors do a great job of cleaning it up. But someone, the minute they get a hold of their content file, they start to tear the book apart. And we found when we send the book to them before it's been printed, they do all these editings and completely, I would almost say I don't want to destroy the book, but they really rip it apart. Whereas when we print the book, we really do. We see that. And first of all, you know, it kind of long. It increases the time is the finish time as well, because they have it. They're letting grandma look at it. They've got the business partner looking at it. Anybody they come in contact, they. We hear that, you know, my team. Well, it turns out the team is everybody sitting around the kitchen table, you know, so we have found that when we just print the book and send kind of. I don't know if there's probably a psychological effect there, like, oh my goodness, I have this book and I didn't get to edit it. And they love it. But if for some reason we send it back to them to do an edit, then we get into all sorts of, you know, issues with. It prolongs the print time, it prolongs the whole process. People start to doubt their words. And I just think they had that moment. But let's talk a little bit from your perspective on maybe why we shouldn't. You know, I've given my reasons, but I know originally when this whole process came about, we. There was no editing of books by clients. But give me your thoughts on that.

Stuart: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? There's, there's so many individual little things that, that play into this. But we've seen, we're up to, I think we're approaching almost 300 books now that we've created, and almost to a fault, every single one that we've passed back to people before getting a physical copy in their hands, it has just disappeared into a black hole of months and months and months of, of chasing where people feel the need to, as you say, either get the opinion of everyone or there's a kind of a fear of closure type issue where people just don't get out of the door. So a couple of kind of anecdotal insights from the two and a half years now we've been doing this for. First, our early stage process was that we would again capture all of the content from people, make it the best version of their words, and then send out to people before getting anything in print. The challenge with that is that as soon as you send something back to someone and say, ok, here's your opportunity to make some changes, they feel compelled or urged to make changes because of a couple of things. One, maybe there's the feeling that, well, if I don't do it now, this is my only chance. Again, that goes back to the kind of old world publishing thing of if you're going to do a print run of 10,000 books, then you want to make sure that it's checked by everyone in his dog first and everyone signs off. Print on demand isn't like that. It's not quite as flexible as a digital file. But making updates is far more straightforward than it would be in a traditional publishing sense. So there isn't the issue, as it was before, of it needs to be perfect first time, otherwise the ship sailed. The second thing is that sometimes there's the expectation of okay, if I don't make any changes, either I'm not giving enough care and attention, or people might think that I'm not intelligent enough to make changes. As soon as you say to someone, here's something and you can make changes, if you don't, then there's a kind of psychological baggage of okay, I haven't responded to this in the most, most considered way I could. I used to work for in London, used to work for Goldman's. And there was the guy that I used to sit next to Amish was, sorry, he wasn't Amish, his name was Amish. So we had a joke whereby we would count the number of replies where people would just say, kind of like, I concur or me too, or thanks for that. So do you remember the movie Catch Me if youf Can? The movie where he pretends to be the doctor and goes in and so he'd been Watching some TV shows, and when the doctor, the other doctors made some medical comment, he would just say, yes, I concur, I concur. So it was almost like a group email would go out saying, and I'm sure this isn't specific to, to that office. I'm sure it happens everywhere. Bleep email would go out where someone would make a point. And then because everyone else needed to be seen to be answering, even if they didn't have anything valuable to add, they just had to reply to everyone saying, I agree or thanks for that or good work, keep it up. Because they needed to be seen to be making a change or to contribute to the conversation, even if there wasn't actually any contribution there. Same with editing. As soon as you go back to someone and say, here's an opportunity to make changes, if they don't contribute something, even if that something is of low value, then there's the. There's a perception that, okay, you haven't contributed, therefore it's an inferior interaction with what you're trying to do. So that leads into, okay, if you don't have anything valuable to contribute, then it just goes into this big, not quite analysis paralysis, but a kind of black hole of, oh, that's something that I need to get to, I need to get to. And the time frame can really drag on and on and on. Likewise, the reason that the majority of people don't just go out and write books by themselves is because it's not a core discipline. Your core discipline is in your business. You know your business very well inside out. You've been doing it for years. All of the specialized knowledge is in your head. But you're not a writer or an editor. So it's foolish to then think that giving you the document or taking a document and needing to make a whole load of changes to it is foolish to think that's going to be done in anything like an efficient, efficient time frame, because it's just not. It's just gonna be this thing that's sat on the desk there. There's a kind of a guilt associated with. Every time you look in that direction, this thing's looking back at you. You're saying, you should be doing this, you should be doing this. And in the end, you just stop looking in that direction. And then the last point, which is the one around, I've just passed this out to a couple of people to get some feedback, is the kind of death by committee type problem. Everyone then falls into exactly the same trap as the first point. We've asked. All that you've done is shared your problem with five other people. Now they feel like they've got to contribute to it or make a be seen to. You should just send it out with a form with a tick box saying I concur. And then everyone can just tick that and return it and the job will be done. So everyone else feels the need to make a change. And then you're dealing with five opinions of five different people, none of whom potentially are experts in this area. But it just falls into this death by committee type of challenge of everyone's got an opinion and can remember saying, I don't know where it came from. But a man with one watch is confident at the time. A man with two watches is never confident over the time because more opinions aren't necessarily going to make it any better. And then there's the strategic coach term of be careful of valuing the opinions of those that don't write checks to you, of those that you write checks to. So getting the opinion of employees or people who aren't actually paying for the service is far less valuable than getting the first version of the book out there, collecting real feedback from real customers. Because at the end of the day, it could be like the, the lean type approach to business. You could write something where actually you entirely miss the, miss the point, miss the actual question. You think that you're answering something that's really valuable. But all of the feedback that you might get within the first six months leads you to realize that actually this other point, this point that's slightly to the side of the one you're initially answering is the one that was more valuable. But getting feedback from people who aren't writing those checks, who aren't actually real customers, you might never uncover that. So there's always this risk, and we've seen it time and time again, of how much editing should I do? It should read well or correct. I can't speak well or correct now, but it should read as well as it can read. There is a slight inherent difference in taking a transcript of a conversation, editing that to be the best possible version of the words that are actually spoken, which is what we do in the. In the kind of the most basic iteration of a 90 minute book. And then reading that back, it does read differently. Again, going back to the mental model that we talked about in the first question, there is a perception of how books should read. So the balance that we strike is to create a book that is conversational in nature, where personality comes across, where it's engaging and concise and to the point and gives people a warm feeling of getting some insider knowledge from an industry expert, from someone that really knows their stuff of kind of not writing something that is clinical and standoffish and definitely not writing something where it's trying to be, look at me, look how clever I am. I can answer all of these questions in big technical terms. You're not trying to show off to the reader, you're trying to engage them. So by having this conversational approach, yes, it reads slightly different in some cases from what you might call a traditional book because the language is different, but that's because the job of work is different. You're not writing a book here in order to sell on Amazon and retire to a beach because you're now an author. You're writing a book as a valuable lead generation piece to give valuable, to give value to potential customers, to allow them to raise their hand to start that conversation in a way that makes them feel good and gives them the answer. So the amount of editing that should be done is enough to make it read correctly, enough to make sure that the actual points you're making are actually technically correct. It would be foolish to send something out that had actual mistakes in it. But above and beyond that, you run into a diminishing return scenario of every minute that you take to edit it, every minute that it's not out there. Collecting leads is a potential customer that is going elsewhere. So what I would advise people to do is be very careful about striking the right balance. It needs to be correct, it needs to read as well as it can. But the fact that it's not structured in the way that a traditional book is structured, absolutely fine. The fact that it's only addressing one particular point, absolutely fine. The fact that your personality comes out in it and the words that you use whilst talking might be different than words that you use. If you were just to write an email to someone, absolutely fine. Because the job of work, of this is to engage with someone, collect the lead and start that relationship. Not to win a Pulitzer Prize for a book that's, that's read and critically acclaimed. If you want to do that, that's fine. But that's a separate type of work. And be very careful. Don't allow your own kind of mental bias or the model constraints you've got in your head to derail the actual project that you're trying to achieve, which is engaging and collecting leads. So editing is definitely one of those things that it's very, very easy for people to get derailed on and sink a whole load of time, which is effectively wasted effort. It'd be interesting for people if they haven't, to make sure they get a copy of the 90 minute book from 9minutebooks.com that book we've done, as I say, we're closing them on 300 books now. We've been doing this for two and a half years. The first version of the book, it's. We've edited it again recently, so we've, we've done one more iteration on it. But for the first two, two and a bit years we intentionally left it at the very roughly edited first version of the book that came straight from that transcript. Because the point that we were trying to make is that the title of the book is the thing that captures people's attention. Rather, the COVID design of the book is kind of the eye catching piece that draws an eye towards it in the first place. The subheading and the back cover copy are the things that allow people, or if not the back cover copy, if they don't have a physical copy, then the subheading on the landing page, the actual copy on the landing page is the thing that get people to raise their hand. No one turns around and says, okay, I'm not going to give you my email address details to get a copy of this until I've seen every page of the content. The content just needs to be good enough to create that relationship and take it onto the next stage. So again, it's always interesting. People will come back to us and say, okay, well what about the this or what about that? And these are actual customers. Actual customers that have paid us money will say, well, it's exactly the same way in the 90 minute book called the question you're asking is answered in the 90 minute book or your the point that you're trying to make. We had a great discussion about it in the 90 minute book and there's. If you read that first, that's probably going to answer your question. And the amount of people that come back and say, oh well, I actually haven't read it, I haven't read it, I haven't read it. Really does prove the point that the content needs to be compelling enough and valuable enough to move the conversation on to the subset of people that read it. It is the minority of people that read it though, not the majority. The main point is the COVID and the title. The promise of answering a problem that someone's got rather than some award, winning, critically acclaimed content. So there you Go. That was my very brief sense

Guest: you mentioned. We were talking about the editing kind of leds into my, you know, my. One of the questions we need to answer about how long the process takes and you know, the typical process is very simple. If we stick to the process, you're looking at four to six weeks without any hiccups. When we send that the book to be edited by the client, that process usually goes somewhere like 12 weeks, you know, so that's a big difference when you're.

Stuart: Yeah, exactly. If not even more than that because I mean we've got months and months and months books disappear for. Because of this whole problem that we've just described. Now I'm sure within all of those there are legitimate ones where some change in business or change in direction or perhaps people are realizing that they actually were too, they were trying to do too much in a book and it doesn't. This point of trying to answer one question as deeply as possible. Maybe they feel it's not deep, but the majority of it is. This analysis paralysis issue. I've just noticed the time running. We've just blown past 30 minutes.

Guest: Way over.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah. Having started by saying that we'll get to some rapid fire stuff at the end. We didn't even get through the list of the ones that.

Guest: No, we didn't.

Stuart: I mean just on to that point and then we'll, we'll close on. How long should a process take? 4 to 6 weeks. We should be able to have a conversation with you to outline it in the first place. Make sure that your message is dialed in as, as, as laser focused as it can be in order to achieve the outcome that you're trying to achieve. We can take the steps necessary to get the content out of you so that we've got that captured, edited it so that it can be the best possible version of your words and then print it so that that first run can get out there and collect leads within four to six weeks. Again, all those things are tactics. Those are kind of the nuts and bolts of how the process works. The strategy, the benefit is that efficiency and speed to market. So imagine in four to six from now. So we recorded now on the 20th of August, so that would be four to six weeks, would be kind of mid to end September. So by the time the kids have been back in school for a couple of weeks, the book can be out there collecting leads if you need to iterate on it, afterwards if you need to make changes to it. The benefits of digital publishing on demand publishing means that that's not a problem at all. It's easy to update, but the speed at which you can get there, by the time that someone else has even considered what their book might be about or gone back and forth, getting the opinion of a couple of people to say, I'm thinking about doing this or I'm thinking about doing that. This can be out there, collecting leads. It only needs to take 90 minutes of your time. We have a conversation to outline it in the first place. We take about an hour to capture all of the content. You have got the option to get involved at various stages of the design process for the COVID but obviously our designers have done approaching 300 covers now, so they're really dialed in on the types of things you need. You don't need to put any more effort into it. It can be out there collecting leads, getting feedback, getting new business, and then if you want, worry about editing it and making some changes and tweaking it based on real life feedback, just as the lean startup model would suggest. Get something out there and test it in the real world, but get some money in, get some business in and then make some changes rather than just hypothesizing what might be the best thing. Six months goes by and nothing happens. So there we go. I think talking about efficiently, that's it. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's probably, yeah, getting it out there.

Guest: Otherwise, you know, that's one of the things we say to people all the time, like just, let's just get it out there and you start, you know, growing your business, building those leads. We can, we can tweak later, you know, so otherwise it is, it's just sitting there and you're not growing your business, but you're not editing your book either. So it's sitting somewhere. So.

Stuart: Exactly. I think that's a good place to wrap. We've got. I'm not sure whether it'll be in next week's episode or the week after. I'm just getting the schedule lined up for the next couple of shows, but the interview that we've got with one of the previous authors is really going to underline what we've just talked about today. The difference that getting out there, collecting, engaging with potential customers, the difference that can make to your business. So definitely keep an eye out over the next, next couple of episodes for that. I think that will really give people some insight into what a difference it can make to the bottom line, rather than just kind of talking about the, the production process itself. As I said before, this show is episode 015, episode 15. So head across to 90 Minute Bookstore 015 and that will take you straight to this episode or just to the podcast page and it will be the top in the list. If you're ready to get started now, if you want to reach out to us, then either head straight across to 90minutebooks.com start to get started or if you still have some questions after what we've talked about today, then just shoot as a note to hello at 90 Minute Books and we'll get back to you and be happy to answer any of those questions upcoming shows over the next couple of weeks. If there's anything that you want us specifically to address, then drop us an email to podcast 90 minute books and we'll try and build that into a future show. Always happy to to feedback to people directly. So reach out to us those ways and look forward to seeing what your book's about. Any closing words from from your side?

Guest: No, I think we're good. It was, it was great that, you know, most of our questions answered and you know, these podcasts are great. People love listening to them and, and they do. You know, I do pique some interest. I get a lot of calls once, once this has come through. So I look forward to speaking to everybody once I've heard this and have other questions is fantastic.

Stuart: That sounds great. Well, thanks everyone and we'll catch you next time.