Information Goldmines

Stuart: Hey everybody. Welcome to another book more show. Excited to be joined back by Dean this time. Dean, how's it going?

Guest: Hey. It's all very exciting. We've been seeing a lot of great books come through the office, so I always love to see that.

Stuart: I love seeing the Facebook videos every now and then, the kind of real time update on what's going on at the door.

Guest: There's a big stack there, I need to do another one.

Stuart: It's always exciting to get so caught up on the production side of things, getting them to the stage that they go out the door and kind of physically miss them getting shipped to people. But it's definitely the exciting, exciting stage of the process and then the feedback as well. We just got, for some reason the last couple of months, we've got a big spike in reorders coming through. So there's a few people particularly who are ordering kind of thousands books in the thousands.

Guest: That's awesome. There's nothing like it as a business card. You know, I mean, that's really the thing. And if you're doing that, especially as a lead generator, you know, imagine those are all new people that you have a start of a relationship with. It's fantastic.

Stuart: And that's the thing, isn't it? It's not just that. It's. It's a, it's a physical book that you can put on the shelf. It's. It is the beginning of that conversation

Guest: that's the most important.

Stuart: Yeah, definitely. Okay. So I thought we would talk today about kind of like information gold lines. I've heard, you've heard from this before, the kind of books that we can create that really offers that value and captures.

Guest: Well, when we talked about the. I did a call about book titles and you know, one of the categories of titles is what I call information gold mines. Right. The thing that people are going to say, oh, that is. That's very helpful. And so we've used a lot of these for things where there are questions about things or things that somebody has to do or something that's coming along. But if you can think about it as the place that somebody who's starting a process would go or be looking for, for research. You know, that's the way it, that's the way it goes. Most people are, when they are starting a new process, the first thing they do is they start gathering information about it. Right. And so having the, an information gold mine that's kind of a magnet for, for those people is a great place to start. We've used them For Social Security with financial advisors, we've got quite a few financial advisors that have done sort of different versions of a Social Security benefits guide. We've used them for hockey scholarships. Your guide to. And when you're putting a date on there, especially if information is constantly changed, changing when you say that the 2017 Guide to US Hockey Scholarships, that is now, oh, this is the up to date information here. And so there's lots of, there's so many opportunities that you can be the source where people would be looking for information that way.

Stuart: I think that's the key, isn't it? That understanding, that user journey, that people, their first contact with a subject that they've, they're either interested in or they unavoidably have to do something about. It's just that, that vacuum that sucking in so much information that they can get about it because they're coming from a position of being completely unaware or unknown. So there's a real sponge like effect of just trying to draw in all of the information. I can always remember when I was in school, I can remember that far back. But when I was in school there was a friend of ours who every summer would be, would come back as the absolute expert on a, on a new thing, whether it was computer games or programming or BMX bike riding or calligraphy. I remember one year. And the reason was because he was an only child, he lives a bit little bit further away from everyone else. This is before the days of the Internet. So he would just spend all summer consuming whatever he could on a particular subject. So magazines and books and.

Guest: On one topic. Yeah.

Stuart: Oh yeah, exactly. Yeah. And there was a real, not desperation but a real desire to just consume as much as possible. And I think even in, in later life now as we've got situations where you're either interested in subject or you have to deal with something that first gathering phase, finding a reliable, trustworthy source of complete information is. Yeah, there's a real need out there.

Guest: Yeah. And so you know how that works is roughly there's a good framework for it. If you use it as an answer book, like you just imagine that there's the opportunity to kind of think about well, what are the most, you know, what are the questions that people are going to have about this whatever the topic is, you know, like what are the questions that they're going to have at the front of their mind. And then I like this idea of. And I got this from Mike Koenix who shared for, just for sharing information of asking or answering the 10 questions that people should be asking but don't even know that they should be asking. You know, like a lot of that when you start out with the 10 most frequently asked questions, the ones that everybody's got at the top of their mind and then the next 10 being the one, the questions they should be asking but don't even know that they should be asking. That's a nice segue, you know, using that. He talks about it for videos, but I like it as a, as a book, an information guide kind of outline. You know, it's a really great thing. Of course, the way we do our books, the process that we use for doing our 90 minute books is perfectly suited for that kind of audio interview kind of format to give people an easy track to run on with kind of asking the questions and answering them and then always leading to the next step.

Stuart: Absolutely, absolutely. I think we've said, I was talking to Susan last week or the week before. It's so easy for people to forget how much knowledge they've got and how much value that knowledge can provide, even if it seems the most basic of things.

Guest: Yeah. Especially when you're. All you have to be is just a little bit ahead of somebody else.

Stuart: You know, it's like the story of the two guys walking through the jungle and spot a lion and the guy starts putting his sneakers on and his mate turns to him and says, I don't know why you bother me doing that. You'll never outrun a lion. And he looks at me and says, I don't need to outrun the line, I just need to outrun you.

Guest: Right, exactly. That's the whole thing. Yeah. As long as you're one step ahead. But you know, these are really great. This is a great format for a book if you can think like a chess master, you know, like. So as a financial advisor, it's not the most prudent thing to have a book about how to let me manage all of your money. That's really what, that's really what the underlying desire is. But that's not the thing that your clients want. Right. They're gathering information. So what's going on in their mind as they're approaching retirement. Social Security is certainly a top of mind thing and everybody's going to be affected by it. So. And they have questions about it. It's not, not crystal clear. So to presence those questions and to offer the solution for them in one easy place. Now you've turned an invisible prospect into a visible prospect. I talked about the, the hockey scholarship guide you know, it's like now that you know, when you have something that is, that is focused on providing something that is a little bit complicated or a little bit hard to initially explain that it's often the best thing to gather a list or group of people who by virtue of asking for that thing, asking for that directory are now your ideal audience. You know. You know that the, the only reason that somebody would ask for a 2017 U.S. hockey Scholarship Guide is to. Because they have, they are or have a child who wants to get a hockey scholarship. Now you're positioned to have a conversation about showing them how your branding and packaging and social media services can help their kid stand out over all the other kids, which is a message that's harder to, to convey through just cold advertising.

Stuart: You know, particularly on a subject like that, where there's a certain element of assumed knowledge that's really needed before that conversation steps up to the level of come and work with me. Because I can put you in a position of standing out above the crowd. That audience are really not even in a. They're kind of like the unknown knowns or the known unknowns, whichever way around it would be. It's the group of people who are perfectly suited but don't necessarily know that they're perfectly suited.

Guest: Right. Yeah. And you just can't, the thing is you can't get a list of the, of them. So you can make your list of them. Right. By offering something that what would they definitely be looking for? What are they, what are they interested in and what are they, what would they be searching for if they knew enough to search for it, you know.

Stuart: Yeah. And that's the thing, isn't it? The start in the conversation. The information Goldman type books suit such a broad range of, of target audiences. We talk a lot about thinking of a book in terms of an individual funnel rather than an overall business, but targeting one book at the unknown known to the people who might not even understand they need the service. And then there's a follow up book which is positioned with a different set of 10 questions and a different set of 10 questions that they should be asking.

Guest: Yeah, I mean you can have them for each step along the process. I mean when you look at it, I'm not holding this romantic idea of what we're helping people do is create these like know these masterpiece books that are going to be in the, the, you know, the archival Library of Congress and all of that. Even though they will be because they all have ISBNs. But just I'm not, I Don't have any illusions that that's what we're doing for people. What we're doing is helping people create marketing tools. And you know, you look at what we do for the four 90 minute books, there are three books in the process. We have the 90 minute book that explains exactly how it all works. And then when people are coming on board, we have Preparing for your 90 minute book to show how to get the most out of the experience. And then when people are done, we have beyond the book. Now that you've got your book, here's what to do to turn it into the best tool that you could ever imagine for your business. And that's the way that you want to think about the information is just to start the conversation, right? The guide is just to get somebody to raise their hand. Now that you have that person's attention. Now you can have a book as a companion guide or a book that goes along with it that helps people think a new thought. And there's a psychology around this is like we're kind of, we're kind of using, we're triangulating, right? That we are using information that we know absolutely for sure that they want. And then we're providing them that information. But that information now is a gateway that we're in that relationship with them. And we can use that to now introduce some new information along with it. And it's like I'm saying to somebody the other day, it's like if you're trying to break through as a band or a performer, one of the best things that you can do is start doing cover versions of songs, right? Where you can do songs that people you already know, they like and they're already like. If you're, if you're an artist that is like a particular other artist, you can do a cover version of their song to start the conversation. And now that they know who you are and like what you do with that, now you can segue over to a new thought. And it's very similar. You know, this information. We know for sure that people who are doing anything that is especially a big financial commitment, anybody who's doing anything like that is always going to feel better by having gathered all the information. It's the responsible thing to do and

Stuart: starts the relationship off by giving something useful first and slowly taking them along the journey that kind of minimum viable commitment, step to step to step. It's. It's difficult for. If it's the first point of contact, no matter how big or compelling or comprehensive a book could Potentially be. There's no way that it's going to be big enough or compelling enough or comprehensive enough for someone to sign over $2 million portfolio. It. Jumping straight to that biggest transaction isn't. Isn't the most effective way of leading people through the conversation. It's. It's starting identifying the invisible prospects and then continuing from there.

Guest: Exactly.

Stuart: I think that idea we get a couple of. I was talking to Betsy yesterday. Someone had. It was actually one of Mike's guys, the warrior CEO guys had dropped his message and Mike had said to reach out. But the chap particularly didn't have that clear an idea on what the next step should be. And I think a lot of people find themselves in that position that perhaps get the premise of the book and why it can be a valuable tool to identify invisible prospects but don't necessarily know what to put in there or concerns. So I think this framework that you were talking about of the 10 most frequently asked questions which people can get from many sources, I mean, if nothing else, Google something and look at what the autocomplete says or the service desk, support desk in your own business, you're bound to get many of the questions. And just leaping back to the. Of something I said earlier about not necessarily undervaluing or dismissing something that seems so basic to you as being in the business day in, day out, there's still value to someone in that gathering phase. So I think that model of ask the 10 or answer the most 10 most frequently asked questions, but then think about the questions that they should be asking. That type of model is really going to help people who are perhaps struggling to come up with what to include to really be able to create something and, and leverage it because it works across any industry.

Guest: Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Stuart: I think we've seen it with the real estate side of the business that we have the kind of old question that we ask of would you prefer to be rich or famous?

Guest: Right.

Stuart: The point that he made about there's no, there's no illusion here. We're not trying to win any awards, we're trying to win business. So yes, the way of doing that is this is a good way of doing that rather than getting too bogged down in the process of becoming an author. It's less about being an author and it's more about a business owner that writes a book to generate more business.

Guest: Yes. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean that's really the thing. And you know, the good news is, and I've said it before, that Part of the thing, if you do it right, you get the title. The thought that what would it be that somebody would be looking for? You know, I mean, so when we talked about titles, this was one of the categories was information gold mines, you know, being just that what would be the way. What would be the, you know, does your thing fit in that Is there something where people are gathering information about it, you know, and, and how can you present that in a way that makes them feel like, oh, this is. I need to start here.

Stuart: Yeah. I think the point that you're making earlier about having a date around it as well. So the 2017 Guide to Social Security, even though the majority information may remain broadly the same year to year, there's still usually always some legitimate things that change within a particular industry. But even if there isn't that, it's still accurate to say it is the 2017 Guide to Something. Even if all the information is the same as last year.

Guest: Because you're absolutely right.

Stuart: Yeah. That links back a bit to the pre suasion. I think the last time we talked on the show we were talking about Robert Cialdini's pre suasion book. And there are a number of those little cues that can be included to predispose people to understanding that this is.

Guest: Well, the book itself is one of those. I mean the book itself is. Is that the book itself is a pre suiter. You know, somebody who asks for a book on US Hockey scholarship guy is a. Is now much more likely and open to a conversation about the next level, which is how to, how to win scholarships, you know.

Stuart: Right. And that there's a whole raft of follow up information that can be provided then to move the move the conversation

Guest: which now positions Jay's, you know, branding and packaging and social media services. That all makes sense now in the context of winning a scholarship.

Stuart: Right.

Guest: Whereas gathering the information is. Makes it safe for people to raise their hand. And so you always think about that same thing, you know, like having the, having those things we did. Remember, I think you met these guys at the Olive Marketing conference when we did the mainframe outsourcing. You know, which. Those guys, that was a, you know, a big win for them was doing a guide to, you know, the, the quarterly guide to mainframe outsourcing. And that was a, you know, big thing with corporate clients that, you know, each, each client was worth $100,000 or more up to several hundred thousand dollars for a. A full migration. But they were starting out by realizing that the first thing that somebody's Going to be tasked with is we'll get all the information together for what are our options for mainframe outsourcing, particularly in scenarios like that.

Stuart: I know we've talked before about the example of the dental continuing education requirements. So something out there is, has triggered this need. So it's not like this is discretionary. In the example of the mainframe guys use the term. You can imagine them being sat around the board table all kind of twiddling their thumbs and then to Willaga, go find out about mainframe outsourcing. All of a sudden there's a kind of an immovable object meeting. An irresistible force of here's the deadline. You've just been tasked with going to find out all of that information. So that's a kind of a real driver as I start the conversation and presenting something that's accessible and easy to use. It doesn't show any whiskers to kind of use the cheese and whiskers metaphor. It's just all about providing information in order to start the conversation.

Guest: Yeah, exactly.

Stuart: I was just looking back on the gallery page on the 90 minute book sites and looking at some of the titles that have, have gone out recently and thinking about that bridge between people providing answers and people providing information. And there's quite a mix of, of presentations on the covers of that type of type of thing. I think the answers ones really stand out as if someone's searching for a particular question. The answer books really stand out as being the answer to that. And I think there's a. I'm struggling to kind of think of the right, the right words to define it. But there's a definite difference between here's a book that is almost broadcasting information versus here is a book that answers a question. And I think as an outsider coming into understanding about this particular subject or even someone who's got some degree of understanding but needing to know more. There's a, there's a feeling of certainty or comfort that you get when you see a title that clearly answers a question.

Guest: Yeah.

Stuart: Something that's, that's almost more statementy.

Guest: Yeah, I agree. You have to. It's charge neutral is what I call it. Where you're not, you're not trying to necessarily get somebody to think a new thought. Right. You're just.

Stuart: Right. Yeah, exactly.

Guest: Yeah. You're. You're meeting them where they are.

Stuart: Yeah. So this is why we haven't done the show. Your two words were much more valuable than my 22 words.

Guest: Ah, that's so funny.

Stuart: But it's true, isn't it, it's like the old judge ruling of pornography. You might not be able to, to describe it, but you know it when you see it. It's that judge neutral that, that term of you're not trying to get someone to think a new thought, you just join in. A conversation that's already going on is particularly for the funnel where in the context of almost like cold lead generation, where there isn't necessarily a conversation going on with you, particularly where they don't necessarily know who you are so there's no brand recognition or value in the name. It's just trying to start conversation. That comfort that you get of seeing a title that answers a question that you've got some concern or anxiety about having answered really stands out particularly. So when you look at 100, 150 or so covers next to each other, it's jumps off the page.

Guest: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a good idea to go. You know, I mean if people, if people look at our gallery, you know, you look, there's great examples there. If you go to the. To90minutebooks.com and click on the gallery link, you'll see laid out there's hundreds of books there that you can see the, the titles and you can see the ones that, that really stand out. It's a good exercise.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah. I think both in terms of kind of look and feel and the, the, the kind of feeling that you get from answering those questions. Asking questions.

Guest: Yeah.

Stuart: Fantastic. So we are just heading towards 30 minutes. So I ran very long last time so I'll, I'll cut you loose.

Guest: Perfect.

Stuart: Lots of other things to get on with today. Thanks for your time again, Dean. We will catch up again. We're going to try and make get you on the call a little bit more regularly now than in the past.

Guest: I love it. Perfect.

Stuart: If people want to follow along with the show notes, head across to 90minutebooks.com forward/this episode 023 so 90minutebooks.com 023 and there'll be a transcript of the call up there along with some, some links to some of the things we talked about. Dean, thanks again and everyone, thanks for listening in. We'll catch you next time.

Guest: Thanks sir.