Practical Book Launch Ideas (pt1)

Stuart: Foreign. Welcome to another Baltimore show. It's Stuart here with Betsy again. How are we doing, Betsy?

Guest: I'm great. Great to be here as usual. And we're doing this on a, on a different morning than we normally do. So nice and quiet around here. So that's, that's even better. So fantastic. What are we going to talk about today?

Stuart: Mix things up a bit. Slash. We didn't go around to doing it yesterday, so we're doing it on Saturday morning. So a more relaxed vibe to the podcast today. Really?

Guest: Yeah.

Stuart: Less stressful Saturday mornings. So today's going to be a good one. We're going to do a bit of a deep dive show today. Next week we might hit some more Q&As. We've got a few of those building up. But I thought we'd go a little bit deep in today's episode and talk about a question that's come up quite a few times over the last couple of weeks as we've been talking to people going through the system. And that's as they get to the end of the system. The books are coming into production. They've made any tweaks to the content that people might want to tweak as part of the version two process that we offer to everyone. So they're ending up with an end product. All the hard work's been done. What now? So this is where the rubber meets the road. This is the opportunity to. This is the whole point of doing it. At the end of the day, we're not, this isn't vanity stuff. We're not just trying to do books for the sake of being a best selling author or just to get out of our heads. For the most part, this is really looking at engaging some customers, putting something valuable out into the marketplace, generating new business. So what we're going to look today at what people can do to take their newly found asset, get it out there working for them and generating some excitement.

Guest: Fantastic. Yes. A lot of this has been, it's been brought up a lot lately by different clients. And on my end, people will come to me when the book is, let's say 70% finished and say, okay, what do I do? There's an anxiousness like, what am I going to do when I finish with this book? Sometimes we don't think about that. So I'm hearing a lot more people really preparing ahead of time, wanting to be prepared so when that book is completed, they can go straight for that, you know, launching, you know, so it's, it's, it's nice that people do. Yeah, exactly.

Stuart: And that's the whole point, isn't it? I mean, it's so easy to get caught up into the mechanisms and mechanics of getting it out there. The whole point of the process is to make it as streamlined as possible for people really doing the work up front, but then taking all the pressure off people so that they end up with something that they can, they can use and, and get out there and engage the audience. So that really is the main point of it. It's, it's getting out there in the hands of people and, and starting conversations. We kind of talk about the tagline in the business being making invisible leads visible or highlighting those prospects that are hotter than colder. But it all really comes down to starting that conversation. So today we're going to use the frame of a kind of more traditional book launch. It's always handy. I've shot out a, like an email to the list. Last week or the week before we'd done a podcast on one of the other network shows. Dean was talking to Jamie Smart. He has a, in addition to being a 90 minute book author, he's got a tradition traditional author publishing deal with a UK publisher. So we were talking about some of the ways that they were launching one of the, one of his other more traditional books into, into the store, physically into stores in the UK and some of the tactics and strategies that they were using. So we're going to use that similar kind of model. We're going to talk about some of the things that traditional publishing houses will do, but we're going to put a 90 minute book spin on it and really look at how us as business owners, as marketing guys, really thinking about getting the book into people's hands and identifying leads and starting conversations. So how we can use the traditional strategies but tweak the tactics slightly to better serve ourselves.

Guest: Sounds like a great place to start.

Stuart: Perfect. So as usual I'm probably going to go off on a rant and start talking a lot, so feel free to jump in at any time. I think oftentimes you tend to deal with a broader set of people than I do as far as customers go. So again, if you've got any real life examples of how people are using it, I've got a couple here as we were going through the outline. So jump in and we'll try and illustrate the, the ideas with some real life examples that we know people are doing. With all that said, let's get started. So I've got five or six main headings and These, as I say, all examples that we see traditional book launches going through. So we'll take them one at a time and then look at better ways to do them, more effective ways of doing them. So the first one on the list is you often see people doing book readings or book signings. So this is usually part of a tool to launch a book either just as it launches or more often than not these days as a kind of pre release strategy because there's such a, there's such a machine and a metric system that drives the bestseller lists that it's very gameable. And you see this quite a lot with other publishing companies or marketing companies will teach you or have programs that will get you onto bestseller lists. And as we said before, that's not really the focus of what we. Well, it's not at all the focus of what we do. But there are reasons why there are other models in which that works and it's the right choice. But using that same strategy, that same idea of getting in front of people, how can we better do it if the purpose is to identify leads. So rather than just going out there to drum up enthusiasm and excitement for the book itself because you're interested in book sales, the better way of doing it for lead generation is to almost scale it back in a certain way. Less is more because really being more niche specific and thinking about the overall funnel. If you're having an event where you're inviting people to talk about the book, your book, rather than the book itself being the focus as it is in a traditional sense here the book is just an excuse. It's an opportunity to start a conversation, dialogue with people about an end product or service. So some great ways that we see that happening is in an online sense, people arranging calls or webinars to talk through either the entire subject of the book or a particular topic within the book, bringing together people to talk about that specific thing because you can then add value to them, but use the book as the excuse, as the mechanism for holding that event. So just holding an event for the book in itself is probably less productive because we're not, A, it's not entertainment, most of these books aren't entertainment, and B, it's not. Book sales aren't really the end goal because 99% of the people that we deal with, just one sale of a product or service would equal a thousand sales of books. So the book itself is not really the focus. But using it as the excuse to bring those people together is a similar kind of model, but just a Much more effective strategy that of course works locally as well, particularly for businesses who are very geographically based rather than internationally or in location independent. Then bringing people physically together is a perfect opportunity to also put a face to a name and be present in the community. So I can remember talking a couple of weeks ago to Hank Hankison. He's got a very strong presence in a particular community. Financial planner does the majority of the work within this particular community in his area and has built up a reputation and their presence over a slightly longer period. So having an event to that audience in that physical location, using the book as the trigger for the event rather than the main focus of the event is going to be a great way of getting bums on seats and other excuse or opportunities to shake people's hands, look people in the, in the whites of the eyes and, and just make that connection.

Guest: Exactly. We've had a lot lately, I would say in the last six months probably five clients have been going to different trade shows, you know, that are specific to their industry, be it yachting or acupuncture or you know, financial. And they are very interested and they're seeing great success with setting up a booth, being there, a big blown up copy of the book and people coming up to them, they're giving the book away and I know we'll touch on that a little bit later. But they're with their people, they're with that industry and people they're trying to capture and just doing that. And I'm hearing it more and more. When we first started all this, I didn't hear it as much but definitely seeing, you know, that's a great idea to get out amongst the ones that are, that are interested, they're working in your industry, that are interested in your industry. You know where your clients are going to be. Definitely seeing some success there from our

Stuart: clients and it's, it's using the, this is what we say all the way through the books really it's just an excuse to start a conversation. But there is a magic about a physical book that has carry over credibility or kudos or there's something about a book that's different from just giving someone a PDF document or a print out of a pamphlet type thing. There's something about it being bound in a format that looks like a book. It's. I think I was talking about this last week with, with Julia, Robert Cialdini's book, latest book, Pre Suasion. It's all of those mental triggers and links that tie back to something that has more Credibility than something else.

Guest: The Absolutely.

Stuart: The content might be the same, but it's the framing. And the same with having a booth at a store or a trade fair or convention. So often the. The mindset is collecting leads. I can remember, I can remember the story but I blanked on who was telling it. Ah, it's gone out my mind completely. But anyway, whoever it was this. Apologies were not given correct attribution. But the. The story was that they were at a seminar, a convention had said we're speaking from stage. Opened up their presentation by saying hey, great to see so many people here who's here to sell something? And 90 of the audience put their hands up. Fantastic, that's great. Who's here to buy something? And like two hands went up and that mismatch of everyone being there with the same intention to sell, but no one actually being that with the intention to buy really drives or underlines the. The need to get into the mindset of the audience that you're talking to. So being a presentation at a. Sorry, a seminar or an event with the mindset of giving information away, of adding value to the. To the participants, the delegates that are there rather than just being there to collect leads. The. The actual physically being there is very similar but the mindset and the approach is completely different and it can change the whole the way you presence your presence at that event. So the book is a great opportunity or in a great excuse to position something as giving as starting a conversation when you also. Collecting. Collecting and starting conversations as well. We might have time to go through it today but there's another. There's another element of being physically present at something like. Like an event which also needs to be bore in mind which is this concept of. In fact we might get to it in the. In the giveaway section in a bit. But this concept of. If the premise is that you're giving something, it can be a little bit difficult to also try and collect. So giving someone a book in one hand but then also asking them to fill out the name and email address on the other hand, that's a bit of an away pushing a whisker type element. Whereas really you want to keep it all cheese all giving or leading with a giving hand as we've said before. So that's where things like the back of a copy leading someone to a minimum viable commitment. Next step of giving someone a book with 100% pure intentions of just giving it without expecting anything in return, but then very clearly having a easy next step so that you do get A chance to collect the details by saying to people on the back cover, for example. Okay, now you've read the first five things that are important about this particular business. What you really need to do now is take this scorecard or go through our. Grab a free copy of our checklist and then you can baseline yourself on whatever index or metrics you want to set up. But creating something so it's easy for someone to. To opt in separate from the fact that you've given them something to start the conversation. So it's a little bit difficult to. Not difficult but the nuance of it goes quite a few levels deep and it. And it's easy not to necessarily drill down deep enough. But I think the, the main thing to think about is that authenticity, authenticity of purpose. So kind of looping back to what we start off talking about the book reading, a book signing. The authenticity of purpose as we're trying to do it is to start the conversation but start by, by giving something. Start by promoting the content of the book which is useful to the audience. So just to close I want to move on to the next. We've. We were talking about that the, the lead generating example of a book reading or a book signing might be a call or webinar based on promoting the book. The book is the excuse for having it. A live example would be physically to have it in a location. So if you've got a. A community centre in the area or there's a partner that you're working with in the area, then that's an opportunity to use their facilities. The whole meetup. Have you ever been on meetup?

Guest: I have, yeah.

Stuart: Yeah. So for those that aren't aware, I think it started after. I'm pretty sure I was reading the founder's story at some point and it started after or it really picked up a pace after 9 11. So there was a whole. The founders felt that there was a real kind of opportunity to create a sense of community and build on sense of community. So they created a platform where you could build. Build communities and organize meetups. So for example we used it very successfully when I lived in London to run the Isle of Marketing meet up in. In London. I know they use same platform worldwide so even organizing things in that type of environment is a great way of bringing people together. Or you could even do things like organize Q A sessions or AMA is kind of the ask me anything type sessions really it's just using the book as an excuse to bring that audience together. So depending on where your audience is or how big your audience is. There's a lot of opportunity, opportunities to use that as the trigger rather than as the event itself.

Guest: Great. You know, really that's a great idea. That meetup is really in this area taking off a little bit more. And I really have never thought, oh, that would be something for somebody to do. But you know, I think certain, there's a lot of being on meetup, having recently moved to a new city. There's a, there's, it's, there's something for everyone, truly. But for some reason I clicked on a financial group one time and now I get a lot of notifications from them. But there's so many groups out there for people to contact and they're always looking for speakers and you know, someone to come in and talk to the group. And that could be a great way, you know, particularly if it's a group that has, you know, and some of them do, thousands of members, you know, to reach out to these folks. So that's a great idea. It's definitely something I'll use when people.

Stuart: Yeah, absolutely. It's about adding value, isn't it? And that actually is a great, that's a great point to think about in that again, going back to the authenticity of purpose type model and it's always easy. You kind of try and tie all of these things that we're talking about. It's easy for it to get a little bit specific into using a book for a particular purpose. And then the language and the scenario and the setup is not necessarily difficult to follow. But sometimes it's easier to bridge it across into other things. So I always, often, always, often I often tie it back into the example of being a party. If you just turn up in that party, no one else knows you and then you just start talking about how great you are. That's not going to engage people as much as either if you turn up there not knowing anyone, but start asking questions about those guys and have a genuine interest in someone else or be a regular attendee at the party and create a bit of an audience, create a rapport with the people because of kind of longevity, because you're often there, because you're often helping out. So the same with what we're talking about here, engaging an audience. It's very difficult to go into a brand new community and just start shouting about how great you are and expect to get some traction. Much easier to either build a relationship with the groups over time or if it is the first time attending somewhere or you're visiting Then go in aiming to give as much value as possible and start to build rapport there. So the meetup example is a perfect example because you've got the opportunity of a. You could for example, if you're geographically based in an area. So meetup generally is. Is relatively geographically tied because it's pretty people are meeting up physically meeting up physically. It's difficult. Might not make it sound like a dating site.

Guest: It's right, right.

Stuart: It more pure of purpose if you like so. But yes, physically. So if you are regularly in an area arranging a meetup to talk about. So stick with the financial example. Arranging a meetup that talks regularly about what a group of people would need to know for a financial situation. So it could be the. The new parents financial group and you there as a financial advisor are facilitating conversation with new parents on what they like to do. Or a seniors group again targets picking the single target market as relevant as possible. So you could set up a meetup group and then just regularly contribute to it and build an audience over time. And then having the book as a framework, which is actually what we did for the Isle of Marketing meetups, we use the Breakthrough DNA, the eight profit activators book as the frame for that conversation. So there are eight profit activators we would meet every two weeks or so. We would take one of the profit activators per session and then we probably have another couple of meetups interspersed with that. Either just a new person's onboarding one or a complete free for all Q&A one. So over the course of six months or so we would probably get through all of those and then cycle background and talk about it again. So having a regular meetup is one great idea. The other opportunity is like you said, very often people are looking for speakers so you can find a group. So if you were the financial planner working with new parents, you could find a mum's group or a parent's group or a child support group and offer to go and speak at that group and use your book as the example of or the excuse for why you could deliver value to that group rather than just saying I'm just going to turn up and talk about something, go there with a copy of the book, get some copies of the book and physically give them to people. But it gives you the opportunity to be present in that place. It's an excuse to be present in that place whilst adding value all the time. And then the third example would just be to find groups that are. That aren't necessarily subject specific but are topic related. So again, go and speak to people because of a topic bridging and use the book as the example to be there. It's. Yeah, I think that's a great opportunity and I would imagine we'll have to dive into this. Maybe we'll reach out to the community of authors that we've already gone see if anyone's interested in having this as a case study. But I'm sure particularly in the bigger cities where there's a lot of meetup groups, I'm positive that someone could have huge success and build their business funnel for a year out plus if not more, just from using meetup as a strategy.

Guest: Absolutely, absolutely.

Stuart: That's a great idea. Yeah. Let's reach out to the. Actually, if anyone's listened to this now, the, the show notes for this are going to be on the, on the podcast page. So head over to 90minutebooks.com forward slash podcast and this is episode 25 025. So anyone listening to this either this weekend or into the future, feel free to reach back out to us. You can shoot us an email to podcast@90minutebooks.com and, and that will come through to us all. There's just a regular support form on the, on the website. So if this is something that you're particularly interested in, then give us a shout because I'm more than happy to spend a bit of time with people and go through this as a strategy and see what evil steams we can orchestrate around using this particularly.

Guest: Yeah.

Stuart: Okay. There you go. That wasn't too bad. The first topic on the list and we ran off into a 20 minute tangent, but that was right.

Guest: I think that great information for people and, and it's great for me because, you know, truly, you know, when I sit with people we talk about ways to either launch, pre launch or launch or what to do with the book once it's finished. I've never truly ever thought of that and it's, it really is a great idea. It could be potentially, you know, very beneficial, you know, to someone's business. So I'm going to kind of research a little bit on my, on my own as well.

Stuart: Right. And I think particularly for anyone that's got a physical or local business where there is a component of you need to actually see people. The opportunity I think is really to become the, the industry leader in your area. I mean that's the benefit these days particularly. I mean there's people know I'm. And maybe can tell by the accent, but I'm across In the UK at the moment, I used to be down in London, I'm now up in further north in the country and it's a pretty small area. So but even there there's a big enough population for the local businesses here to stay in business because by virtue of the fact that they are in business and have stayed in business, it means that the, the area is big enough. So in a very small area like this, it's easy to become the, the leader, the authority because there's a lack of competition in a bigger area. So London or Tampa, Orlando, New York, any bigger area, the benefit you've got there is number of people, audience size. So there's more competition but there's a bigger audience. So there's a bigger pie to have a smaller slice of and things strategies like this where other people just aren't doing it or aren't doing it yet, at least there's a huge opportunity to capture that audience. The last. I don't know how many people who listen in here, listening to or keep a track on what Gary Vaynerchuk's doing, but he was running through some Instagram DM strategies yesterday. So I was just listening in, in on that and there was the point there saying that all of these things, none of this DMing people in Instagram isn't anything new. Exactly. The same thing happened in Twitter when that platform was up and running. The same thing happened in email 15 years ago. It's not that the strategy is new, it's just that there's. You've got a time based arbitrage if you like. There's, there's less noise in that environment because other people aren't doing it yet. So there is on a number of things just a point in time benefit of, of acting fast, of acting now and getting ahead of the competition. And that means that you really can position yourself as the first to market. It's kind of like that old analogy of I think is it. I forget what the numbers are, the 12 people who have walked on the moon. But if you ask the majority people to name anyone, they could only name the first one, right? There's definitely a first mover advantage, which again is another benefit of the 90 minute book approach of being able to quickly and easily get something out there very fast, very specific, very, very targeted. But it's a great way of getting first mover advantage because you don't need to think about writing a book for a year. This is something that you can do with 90 minutes of your own time. It can be completed in kind of six to eight weeks and get out there and really start capitalizing on that first mover advantage.

Guest: Absolutely. Great idea.

Stuart: Okay, right. I'm not sure. We might need to spring this over two shows because we're already almost coming up on half an hour. We're only the first one down. So the second one then we'll definitely get through the second one because that's kind of related. And then we'll probably save the. Let's catch up in the. In the week and we'll run another show for next week as we follow on and we'll back to back them. So the next one that we have on the list to talk about, the next thing that you see traditional publishing houses doing in as well as kind of book readings and signings, they also do book launch parties or pre launch parties. So how is that going to translate into what we're doing? We're probably not, we're not that excited about a book launch party for the sake of the book itself because of a couple of things we're not really looking to get a lot of media coverage of in events. We're probably depending on the size of the audience. We're not trying to glad hand people in the sense of just telling everyone to pot their tux and come around for some canapes and champagne. What we are interested in doing though is engaging the audience. So the book as an excuse to do something like that is still valid and useful strategy. So comes back to purpose and authenticity of approach though. So rather than just doing a book launch party for the sake of, of having people come home for drinks, having it for another particular reason, but using the book as an excuse, just like we said in the first example, is going to get some. There's a. It's a reason to do something, a reason to bring those people together. So something that might be more beneficial to anyone listening to this, maybe something like a customer appreciation event. So again, these two examples have been pretty physically based for the most part. So if you've got customers in the local area, if you've got partners that you work with, if you've got relationships or organizations that you work with that you can use the book as the excuse to bring people together, but then bring people together to add value to them and whether that value is an education opportunity. So bring people together for a presentation. It's even. Presentation is not the right word because that's two kind of one way. But bring people together for a, an education opportunity. An example that springs to mind. There is Victor Pancini, who wrote the Ehrenslaw solution, that's going into schools and sharing with people a particular requirement that they need to fulfill around this law, this governmental requirement. So a book launch party for that might not be that much, who cares at the end of the day, but having the book as an excuse to go into the schools in your local area and give them a presentation, a 15 minute presentation about what changes they need to put in place to be compliant. Use the book, have the book there, use that as the example to bring people together, but then have kind of like a drinks and a party type opportunity afterwards, but almost as a, as a thank you for people, a thank you for the community, a kind of, I don't want to say a celebration, but a good feeling, a good reason to bring people together. The book being that reason, rather than just the sole purpose being to celebrate a book launch. It's very nuanced and I'm always conscious of anyone that's listened to and more than one of these shows knows that I kind of try and drill into the details as much as possible, which is something sometimes a little bit too much detail that's I'm a slightly higher fact find than other people. But the nuance of the event is the same. At the end of the day, you're having a event where people are there and listening to some words and, and having something to drink and eating some finger food. But the, the purpose of the intent is different. It just being a celebration. Yeah, to a certain degree, who cares? And in the context of a bigger funnel trying to engage people in the conversation, again, it's not the most effective. But having as a customer appreciation event, having it as a education opportunity for this thing, that's changing, delivering value to the group, it keeps it consistent with a funnel and then following up with people afterwards saying, it was fantastic to see you there, I hope you had a really good time. And then leading into a next step of a conversation towards a product or service is much easier to do if the event was based around an education event or being there for a purpose rather than just being there for a party.

Guest: Exactly. I agree with that. I think sometimes even as a consumer, when you get invited to certain things like that, you're kind of hesitant, like, oh, because our time is so valuable, do I want to give up two hours of my time to just, okay, this is great, this guy wrote a book and maybe I can just get a copy of it kind of thing. But if there's something there that's some useful Information, either a presentation or, you know, just 15 minutes, you know, it's still something that could be potentially useful to, you know, my personal community, you know, and that might drag me out of the house, you know, on a Thursday night to do something like that. Or I think we mentioned about maybe doing a, find a weight raiser or some sort of awareness, you know, having a different purpose. But ultimately the goal is to connect with those people for the purpose of your book. But there's other, you know, definitely would get me out the door, I think, you know, and a lot of people, you know, as our time is so, so precious, you know, to.

Stuart: Yeah, and it's all about delivering value, I think, isn't it? I mean, you mentioned there, and I mean all of these examples are. There's no right or wrong answer. It all depends on your individual case. There's, I'm sure there's more than one person listening to this where just a launch party event might be the, the correct answer, but I think for the majority, probably not. You mentioned kind of fundraising or awareness raising. Again, there's so many organizations out there who struggle to engage with their audience, whether that their audience are customers or patients or people that are trying to help in the community. Anyone that's listening to this is thinking about building a book or using a book to engage that audience and being able to bridge that into a complementary, non competing organization. So using the book that you've written to help someone else's audience to run a fundraising event for them, but using your book as the excuse to bring people together is just a way of a building your audience and authority and awareness of you out there, which is great, but from a kind of broader society level, it's also about contributing and giving something back and, and creating the, or contributing to the greater good. So if you can use your book as a reason for another organization to do a fundraiser, as a reason for the school to come together and raise awareness of a program that they're doing as a reason for. An elderly care institute or a charity looking after older relatives to bring family members together and talk about a subject that's, that's pressing. If you can use your, your, your asset, your book as a reason for those people to bring them together, even if there's no direct or immediate benefits to you. The, the broader, not necessarily wanted to say that karma is measurable, but the broader impact that you're going to have is well worth the effort, I'd say, of bringing that together because these things are relatively easy to organize. I'M conscious of times getting on, but because we've just gone past the. Or we're a bit past the half an hour. So an example of that, though, before we wrap up, is Jim Hacking. So Jim's written a couple of books with us. He's an immigration attorney from St. Louis. They obviously are very busy now because of the. The uncertainty around. Around immigration. And I mean, regardless of your personal opinion on what the law should state, the law currently says what it says, and people have got anxiety around how that is being implemented. So he's run a number of events into local organizations just to give people some education, awareness on what the law currently is, what the rights are, if nothing else, even if. And I mean, there is a substantial amount of business coming from it. But even if that wasn't the case, what he's able to do is talk to people from a position of knowledge, from a position of experience, and give them, if not a peace of mind, at least a kind of sane voice in a relatively noisy environment at the moment. So being able to step in and share your expertise, share your knowledge, and the book being the reason to get the excuse to get in front of those people, I think that is just another fantastic opportunity that people have got to kind of spread the knowledge to do something good out there in the community and really help people. I think that's.

Guest: I like that. Like that a lot. Yeah. You know, I like that he's, you know, there is the opportunity for him, but there are probably so many people who are just struggling right now with that and the fact that he has the knowledge and can ease the mind. So that's great. That's great to hear. Really.

Stuart: Yeah. I mean, even if, I mean, there's always a difficulty in using. In using subjects that are emotionally charged because people have got opinions on both sides of the fence. But even if it's something like. So school funding is changing now as the current administration is moving towards a different. And I know you've got an education background, so as the current administration is moving to, it's just a change of direction. So that uncertainty that it's. That it generates, even if it's not as kind of heated as some of the other subjects, whenever there's a change out there, it creates a lot of uncertainty for the people it affects. And whether that affects a big group of people or small group, the opportunity to step in front of people, whether it's education or whether it's financial changes in the financial regulation or whether it's, I mean, I guess regulation is an easy one to think about because it's an external change that people have got no choice but to fall in line with and that creates an amount of anxiety in itself. So I think there's any regulatory change is a great opportunity to kind of step up and be that leading, sane voice and offer something back into the environment. But yeah, another 15 examples have kind of popped into my mind, but I'm resisting them now because we're heading towards 40 minutes. Going to draw a line under it there. Let's catch up again next week. I mentioned at the start we were maybe going to do a Q and A show, but we'll do the second half of this one next week and follow up with the rest of the examples.

Guest: Yeah, there's a lot of great stuff here to work with and I think this is probably, this is probably one of my favorite subjects we've talked about, to be honest with you. So I look forward to that. We'll hop on another call and do it again.

Stuart: Yeah, that's going to be great. So anyone that's listening in, head over to get the show notes. Check out the show notes on the website. So go to 90minutebooks.com podcast and this is episode 25. So 025. We'll have a transcript of the show notes here and we'll put in some additional supporting material so people can refer back to. If you've got any feedback or you want, if there's anything in particular you want us to cover, then just drop us an email to podcasty minutebooks.com and we'll be sure to get that. Of course, you can always use the feedback form or the contact form on the website as well and come through to the same place. And if you've, if the show's inspired you and you're ready to get started, then just head over to 90minutebooks.com and hit the get started button. And Betsy might well be one of the first people you speak to, will be here ready to get your idea out into the world and start some of those exciting conversations.

Guest: Absolutely. Fantastic.

Stuart: Perfect. Okay, Betsy, thanks a lot for your time. I will catch you next week and we'll finish off the second half.

Guest: Thanks so much.

Stuart: Thanks everyone. Bye.