Keep It Simple

Stuart: Foreign. Welcome back to the book More Show. It's Stuart Bell here with Betsy Vaughan. Betsy, how's it going?

Guest: Good morning. It's great. Happy to be back. It's been a while since we've done this.

Stuart: It's been a couple of weeks, hasn't it? I think the last show in the feed that people will have heard was with David Kurtz. A great episode with David running through what he's been doing recently. If anyone hasn't listened to that, definitely recommend going and going and listening. I agree that. I think I almost spoke over you then. See, we're out of the. Out of the routine. The. The other update that I made to the sites which I hadn't realized I hadn't done in the past was the tags that are on the podcast episode. I added one specifically for previous interviews. I can't remember exactly what I called it. Now I'm going to try and look whilst we're talking, but that's a great way. We've got six or seven interviews up already and more to come. So if you want to listen in on how people are using their books out in the real world, then definitely head across to 90minutebooks.com podcast and there are the shows up there which are tagged with the tag. I'm desperately talking slower to try and see what it is. Oh, interviews. That makes sense. Yeah. Head over to 90minutebooks.com podcast and in there, head to the tags there interviews and then you can listen in on. On all of the past interviews we've done. So David was the last one we did. I recorded one that won't have been released yet with Dr. Sunny Kim. That's another great one there to see how they're using the books a little bit more in a. In a referral type structure rather than just pure cold traffic lead generation. So a couple of great shows to listen back to there. So. So yeah, it's been a couple of weeks since you and I recorded. How's this summer been? It's. We're getting towards the end of August now.

Guest: So at the end of summer it went by fast. And

Stuart: yeah, it's. It's scary. I can remember we were in London with Dean in the beginning of July. That didn't seem long ago at all. There were a couple of authors that we were talking with there. I think maybe we've even got a show in this dream after. I know it was just before I was going to meet with Dean where we were talking about some of the more specific lead elements of it. And yeah, that was just at the beginning of July, so definitely gone fast. So today I thought we would revisit to a certain degree one of the topics that we haven't necessarily touched on for a little while, which is the kind of structure of how people can create a book that's pretty simple to do. A lot of the conversations that we've had with people recently, when they've come on board over the summer, there's been a little bit of, not necessarily overthinking it, but particularly on the call I had with Dr. Kim, it was a real reminder that to be able to, in a straightforward way, quickly and efficiently and effectively get something out there that can target a particular group is really one of the distinct advantages of this type of approach, as opposed to kind of a bestseller or a big authority book, because this is that whole kind of lean approach of being fast, to market, to being able to get in front of people quickly in a way that resonates with that particular group. So thought we dive a little bit deeper into those, the sort of more straightforward, keep it simple, not over complicate it. Get it out there getting some business, getting some leads, coming back in and starting conversations. So does that sound good?

Guest: Yeah, I think that's great. I think that, you know, I have a lot of conversations with people and more and more, I think this time this week alone, three people said to me, what do I need to do to prepare for my book? And my biggest thing is don't overthink. And I say that I don't overthink it. It's a simple process. This doesn't have to be complicated. It's a small investment of your time. And so, yeah, I think it's important for people. They really. It's hard for people to grasp, you know, to put their head around the idea that I can write this book in 90 minutes. You know, I think, like with the rest of the things that we do in our life, we tend to all want to overcomplicate them. You know, it can't be that simple, but it is. You know, it really comes down to being that simple of a process.

Stuart: I think that's a great point, that desire that we've got to overcomplicate things or get caught up in the process or whether it's kind of, I don't know, a kind of analysis paralysis type thing of thinking that I've got one opportunity to do this and it has to be perfect. I can't move at all until it's perfect. We've said it before. The benefit to the outside world, to the potential customers that are reading this, the benefit that you get from writing is this perceived value in having written something. But the reality of it is it can be a lot more and should be a lot more straightforward than that. Particularly for this model where we're looking at, as I say, get in front of people as fast as possible, start the conversation, the most cost effective way of doing it, rather than a huge time or money investment into a bigger project which may well come later or down the track. Or if you're trying to, if the job of work of this is something else, then those are all perfectly valid things to do. But that's typically not what we're talking about here. We're talking about quickly getting in front of people. So not overcomplicating it and not allowing yourself to get distracted with kind of some of the non core things is a great way of thinking about it. And not that this should be thought of as a kind of a throwaway thing or not that you shouldn't think about things, but thinking about the right things will really put the, put the focus on where it should be and not get, say, not get distracted by something else.

Guest: That is exactly the conversation I had yesterday with a potential client and just, you know, he was saying like, you know, what kind of notes should I have in front of me? Do I need to do this outline? And I've got all these thoughts on paper. And I said, you know, I think you just need to go through that and just simplify. What are the most important points that you're wanting to get across to the, to your client or potential client. That's what you need to focus on. You know, you've probably, you know, if you're an expert in your field, you have a wealth of information, but they don't need all of it. You know, your, your goal is to put that information in that book enough that they're going to pick up the phone, give you a call, they're going to go to your website, join your, you know, your, your webinar, whatever it is that you're offering, you know, and then, then you can share all that other information, you know, and go from there. But I said all the ideas you have in your head don't have to be shared on paper. Let's focus on, you know, maybe seven, five to seven important ideas that you feel like are going to grab that, that potential client, you know, so that wealth of information, I hear that a lot, like I have so much to say. Well, let's not say it all.

Stuart: Yeah, exactly. It's starting the conversation, isn't it? I think there's as we're, as we're recording this, it's August 26th, so this show is either going to go out later on today or next week. So depending on when you're listening to it, there's a More Cheese Less Whiskers episode, episode 59, which is going to go up tomorrow, August 27th. Dean's talking to chap called Scott. And a lot of the focus there is a similar conversation, nothing to do with books particularly, but this focus of okay, I've been in business for 15 years, I've got a lot of information, I've got this real urge or desire to share my knowledge with people, but I don't know where to start. I don't know where to, which elements to pick versus not to pick. So Scott particularly was a real estate expert, been in business for many years converting commercial and investment real estate background. So it's where to, which particular topic to put the effort behind. So in that episode they focus quite a lot on the outcome first. So which group of people is it that you want to speak with? Because obviously there's a broad group that you could speak with. But picking one group, as we've said before, picking a single target market for this particular project is going to make the whole thing far more effective, both in terms of the people that it resonates with, allowing them to self select and the ease of you being able to create it and keep it on target and give a clear call to action at the end. So in the More Cheese Less Whiskers episode, which I'll link in the show notes here, but the conversation there is, well, start with the end in mind. What's the outcome if you could sit down with someone in the office and almost lay out for them the exact plan that if they followed it step by step they would get to a particular outcome, what does that look like? And then work backwards from there. So rather than saying I've got all of this information, I want to share it, think about it in terms of I want to lead this group of people towards this outcome which I know from experience is going to be very beneficial for them. So working back from that, what I need to include in the book to start the conversation in a compelling way which will make them or encourage people to take the next step. I think that starting with the end in mind and picking that single target audience that that market for this particular book, this particular project is a great way of narrowing down and stopping yourself being overwhelmed with all of the. The coulds and narrowing it down to the shoulds, what should be included in the book.

Guest: That is great. I like that. I like that, you know, starting, you know, backwards, I guess, if you would, you know, working our way back, saying, where is the target? What is the goal? And I think that will help a lot of people, like I said, because people do come to me and they're just. They're, oh, I'm in real estate and I want to write a book. Well, that is such a broad scope, you know, and we could do hundreds of books on the various topics in real estate, you know, so it is nice for people to sort of have that goal in mind, you know, and some people don't. Don't even know that. So it takes a little bit of a conversation, you know, when we're having that conversation with them. What are you wanting to do? Well, I want to build my business. Okay, well, how do you want to do that? We need to think about, you know, are they. Are we going to direct them to your cell phone? Are we going to direct them? You know, where is that? What are you offering here? And it makes people think. And so I've had a lot of that lately. You know, again, it goes back to overcomplicating things. And I think we're, as a society, we just do that. We just tend to make things a little harder on ourselves.

Stuart: So I think as well, the other thing is we fall into the trap, just as everyone else does, of forgetting the basics sometimes, because we're in this model day in, day out, because we, I mean, well, I think we're up to like, almost 380 or so books now. We've got. We've had people get out there and it's very easy to forget that underlying principle of someone will come in and talk about writing something, so helping guide them towards what's the most effective thing they could write in order for. In order to achieve the outcome. And if they're not specific on the outcome, then that's the first thing. It's almost like. It's like painting a house. The final coat of paint that you put on there is the thing that makes it look pretty, is the thing that kind of draws attention, but it's all the foundations and the underlying pieces that need to be addressed first. So the words in the book, the content is almost like the paint on the house. It's the final thing that kind of brings people together. But ideally, you really want to have the outcome sorted out first. You really want to know what you're doing it for. And having a specific project in mind, a specific outcome in mind, just makes the whole, the whole process far more efficient than just going into something thinking, I need to put some paint on something, let me go to the store, buy some paint and then worry about everything else afterwards. It's, you can do it that way around, but it's more likely to be longer and harder if you, if you start it that way around.

Guest: Exactly. And the longer and harder is what we really try to avoid around here, you know, and that's sort of, you know, a selling point when I have a conversation with people, just want them to, if they have that idea and have that call to action, that end goal in mind and sort of stick to the process. It really is such a simple process that we have here, you know, and it doesn't have to be overthought, doesn't require, you know, a 15 page outline. It does, you know, things like that.

Stuart: So, yeah, I mean, obviously very aware that not everyone listening to this is going to be a customer of ours, but I think we've got enough information out there that if people do want to do it themselves, then grab some of the stuff that we talk about on the podcast here. The transcripts for all of the shows are up on the show notes. We obviously we've got the 90 minute book itself that talks really about some of the outlining and the reason for doing it. So I think there's more than enough information for people who do want to go down the DIY route to use a similar kind of model and have some success. Obviously it's much sticking with the faster, easier, simpler model. It's much easier to pay an expert to do it. So to us rather than doing it yourself. But for anyone that does want to, there's more than enough information here, I think to follow that through. So. So moving on from that then, the picking that single target market so that you know who you're talking to. It's funny actually, just before we do move on, I was listening in on the email mastery call from Thursday of this week and Dean was talking to one of the members of that group who's a podiatrist. They were talking about narrowing down the single target market of campaign that they were talking about. So again, not book related but campaign related. Narrowing it down from podiatry in general to a specific issue. So they narrowed in on heel pain because it's one of the most common problems then narrowing in even further on a particular condition. And Dean was saying when talking about the attracting the customers, who it most resonates with with that type of condition or that type of business. And this applies to a lot of people listening to the call. You're trying to attract an invisible audience. If you were trying to attract a group of people who had a net worth over a certain amount, or realtors trying to attract people who lived in a certain area to a certain degree, you're dealing with a known quantity. You can find addresses, you can find lists of people, but it's difficult to find a list of people with heel pain. So you need to do something to get them to raise their hand a little bit more that resonates with them a little bit more. So the example that we were using on the email mastery call was if you could write the report to resolving heel pain for a 42 year old woman with heel. With pain in the left heel for a 40 year old woman with pain in her left heel, that's going to be specifically and very kind of acutely resonating with with her at that point. So obviously that's a little bit impractical, particularly as far as books go. You wouldn't want to be that specific. But finding that right balance of specific enough so that it really resonates with the audience that, that you're looking for and imbalance that with the practicalities of it's slightly impractical to write a book for every single group, so you need to make sure that the group is big enough. But as far as the ad goes and making invisible prospects raise their hand, the reminder that that specificity so that when someone out of the whole possible audience of people who may see an ad or see a reference to the book that a a title and a book that really resonates with them as specifically as possible. It was a good reminder that that's an important job of this. This whole exercise that we're doing in creating it. Okay. So we've probably hammered that point home enough once that scope's been narrowed in and the whole point of it resonating more and it makes it easier to focus your attention on creating it and more specific. It's easier to exclude Stu, easier to draw people towards that call to action at the back of the book leading that group of people to that specific action. I think the next thing which we touched on briefly a few minutes ago is reminding people that the knowledge that they've got doesn't have to be the most complicated knowledge, but the knowledge that They've got, even at the most basic level, is probably useful to engage someone who's just starting the journey in a conversation. So once you know which group of people you're targeting at, you can then make assumptions around their level of understanding and knowledge and perhaps what research they've done before or what their experience has done before. So the things that you include in the book can be dialed in and can be targeted. And it's really the case that you shouldn't underestimate some of the more simple and straightforward things. So I think sticking with that example of keeping it simple, helping people create something that, that identifies and generates and attracts leads as quickly and easily as possible, thinking about that audience of people who are starting their journey, who maybe haven't done the research before, aren't familiar or aren't aware of kind of the industry terms or some of the things that you might take for granted a little bit more because you've been in and around the business for a number of years reminding people to stick with the simple stuff. I think that's another good point for anyone looking to create something, knowing perhaps that a book is a great lead generation tool, but perhaps struggling with what it should be, what it should contain. Worried that they might not have enough knowledge or enough understanding to make a book compelling to read through.

Guest: You know, I think about that a lot as the person who does quality review on every book that leaves. So sometimes when I'm reading books and I think I'm a relatively intelligent person, you can see where some people get very comfortable speaking about their language, their lingo, their, you know, and it gets to be a lot of information. So if we're talking about financial, I just heard from somebody recently, said they felt like their book was, was very technical and the common person reading it may not understand that that maybe have been too much. They were going to do a version two and kind of tweak it a little bit. And I think that is so important to keep in mind like when you're doing that because as an expert in your field, you don't, knowing who you're gearing this towards, you have to recognize are they going to understand all the language? Is it too depth? Is it, you know, and I think some people have that some people may be ego driven and need to show what they know, you know, kind of thing. But I think our team does a great job, you know, with the content team does a great job of sort of, and I don't want to say this in an offensive way, but kind of Dumbing it down, you know, and I don't mean that disrespectfully at all, but just sort of.

Stuart: But it makes it more accessible, doesn't it? Because there is an element, particularly around subjects where there is a lot of insider language and acronyms and expectations. Other areas where there's perhaps emotional baggage around the subject that's being talked about, whether that's the expectation. So my background, as people might know, is in financial stats. I used to work for the financial regulators here in the UK on the technical side, not on the, not on the policy side. But that area particularly is rife with almost intentionally exclusionary, exclusionary language. Because there is a feeling that we need to make this, we need to make this, we want to charge high fees, so we need to make it sound overly complicated. So I can always remember just exactly as you said, talking to people who are intelligent in well paying professional careers within their own industry, but would say things like mortgages, I just don't understand mortgages or pensions, I don't understand pensions. When really at a fundamental level it's just a loan or just a savings account and there might be specific terms around it, but all of that language that builds up around it whilst in the industry, it helps because that level of specificity removes ambiguity to a certain degree. So whilst within the industry it makes sense trying to engage with people outside of the industry, it just really comes across as it's a push away type factor rather than a drawing towards factor. And I think anyone that can bear in mind of who they're talking to and as you said, it's not, it's not dumbing it down at all, but it's pitching it in a way that is, that is easy for the, for the, to the reader to consume, resonate with and then decide to take the next step. I think that's difficult even with people. I mean, I know I do it a lot as well, perhaps not necessarily in the exclusionary language because we don't have that much exclusionary language. Although sort of pulling the curtain back a little bit and revealing what happens internally, even saying that we don't have exclusionary language. I was looking at some of the comms that we were sending out the other day and I've got a note here that we need to pick up for the next couple of weeks of revisiting those because we do use terms like version one and version two of their book, which to us means something within our process, but to a, to one of our customers or potential customers, it perhaps doesn't mean anything because there's no context to it. In the past, we've used terms like galley copy, which is a publishing term which doesn't mean anything to people outside of it. So even at the most basic level, it's a very easy trap to fall into. And again, I mean, we're talking about this call, really. We're trying to help people keep it simple. So it's not a case of get hung up on this too much, but definitely go into it with a mind of, okay, this is a straightforward, simple conversation. It's the book version of what would happen if someone walked into the office for the first time talking about a particular topic. So don't get overly hung up on it. But it's definitely something to think about as much as possible. Either A, when you're recording in the first place, when you're creating the content in the first place, or B, when you are looking at revising something further down the track, looking to make improvements to something in a later update. Yeah, very easy to overlook.

Guest: Absolutely. It's easy to get caught up in what you know and what you say on a regular basis. You know, just that rhetoric is easy to get caught up in that. But I think when you're looking at trying to build a potential business, you have to kind of look at the whole, you know, potential of who the reader is or reader is going to be and how much of that they're going to really grasp or appreciate, you know, Exactly.

Stuart: It's that appreciation element because it is putting yourself in their shoes and understanding that the job of work, of this tool is really to resonate with someone and encourage them or compel them to take the next step. At the one point, just before we move on to the next subject that wanted to cover here is that point you made about. Sometimes people will go into this as a, as an ego journey of wanting to write a book because of some author credibility, celebrity element to it. And I think we've said it before, but whilst the way that we structure this project is definitely not ideally suited for that, because the job of work there is different from, from engaging customers. Not to say that it's not a valuable job of work, but it's definitely a different one. And I think there's that choice of being. Digging, to use the example in the realtor world quite a few times. Typically realtors will have their face on a. On a bus seat in the middle of town. And there's that difference between do you want to be rich or famous? The branding element, the Good thing about the books is that there is a natural authority and credibility element that gets. It's just part of the physical book being created as a thing. But definitely I would suggest that people think of that as a kind of slightly intangible benefit of the project rather than the reason for doing this project in the first place. Again, not to say that it's not a valid reason, but it's quite a different thing. So writing from the point of view of what information can you give to the customer to make it more valuable for them, rather than how much can I prove to them that I know what I'm talking about and I'm the best person. It is quite a different job of work, right?

Guest: Yeah, exactly.

Stuart: Yeah. So keeping with the moving on then. I've just realized we haven't talked for a little while and I forget how quick time goes once we do start talking. So trying to get moved on a little bit and sticking with the keeping it simple setup and how you can quickly and efficiently get something out there. So we've talked about identifying the group of people who you can best help those and not overestimating the, or undervaluing the value of some simple, straightforward questions that they're going to ask at the beginning of the journey. So one of the models that we talk about quite a lot with people is this five questions that answering, five questions that they do ask and five questions that they should be asking. So the five questions that they do ask are those kind of common questions that, within the. The scope of the audience that you're talking to, what the five questions that typically come up, and even if they're straightforward or simple, or again, for want of a better term, stupid questions. Stupid questions. Only stupid answers. But if there's a lot of these things that even you might get frustrated with having to answer all the time if they are being asked a lot. I don't know if you can hear that in the background, but that was Alexa jumping in. For anyone that doesn't have an echo. Hang on two seconds. Okay, muted. For anyone that does have an echo, I find that it hears me all the time, particularly when I'm on the call, not wanting it to hear me. So frustrating. So anyway, so distractions aside, the five questions that are asked quite often, even if they're frustrating ones, are questions that are commonly asked by this target customer group. So answering those may well be a great way of revealing those so far invisible prospects of starting the conversation and then leading people towards a more valuable outcome. So leading people from the five Questions they commonly ask to the five questions they should be asking, which in this context are the things that you as an expert know that if they were to ask these questions, they get a more valuable answer and then leading them towards a call to action, a next step. On the, on the back of the book is that perfect funnel of starting by engaging them in a question that's already going on in their mind, leading them to a more valuable set of information to further the conversation, and then giving people a very clear next step, a kind of minimum viable commitment next step, a small next step that they can take to further the journey even more towards solving whatever their problem is in the first place. So I just wanted to spend a couple of minutes looking at where those five questions can come from, because I know both you and I have had a few conversations where we've broached this subject with people and they've struggled a little bit to think what those questions are likely to be again, because people often come into the call from a position, from a point of view of being too deep into it, of thinking about too complex an answer maybe, rather than the more commonly asked ones. So a couple of people, a couple of places that we often point people back towards are things like the popular FAQ type questions on the, on the website, or asking your support team or the people at reception, the people that deal with the customers in the first instance, what are the common questions that might be asked there? Are there any examples you can think of in the last few conversations you've had of helping people get to that point?

Guest: You know, my brain just sort of stopped. But you know, I get asked, you know, we do get asked probably the exact, I mean, a lot of the same questions. And people will say to me, and this just happened yesterday, did I forget to ask you anything? And which really led me to like, I really in myself, it makes me think I need to go to the FAQ myself and say, okay, what am I missing, you know, when I'm having these conversations? Or am I missing anything? So when he triggered that, you know, I get asked a lot of the same questions, like, you know, how long is this going to take? How long is it going to be until it's finished? When, you know, what do I need to do to prepare? How much time am I going to have to pay? That said, a lot. How much time am I going to be? You have to put into this. So I get, you know, pretty much the exact same, you know, same question, who's going to do my cover? Even though You've already shared that. Well, how do I what about my cover? Because I don't know how to. I'm not an artist. I know that a lot too, you know, and so really those are, those are some of the some questions that I hear on a regular basis and I really.

Stuart: Well, that's a great example of the difference between questions that are commonly asked and better questions that people could be asking. So the how long should my book be? Is the classic one and answering that question for people. So if you're listening to this whatever the example is in your business, that question that's very commonly asked. So for us, the better question that people, people should be asking is something around how do I know that. How do I know that my book is long enough to answer the how do I know that my book is complete enough? How do I know that my book is long enough to answer the questions in the reader's mind? And helping people to think through that process. So it's less about an absolute length. There's no right answer on page numbers, for example. But helping people to think, okay, well once you've identified that single target market, do you have a title that compels them to raise their hand or allows them to identify themselves as wanting it in the first place? And then does the content answer the question that was posed by the title? So you're not kind of asking one thing in the title and then going off subject and answering something else. And then within the book, are you leading them towards a logical next step? You're helping them make that next step in the journey is much better than just an absolute number on should it be 35 pages or should it be 72 pages going back to places like the support desk or maybe even like the sales team. I mean, I'm guessing if you've got a sales team working for you, that's going to be the perfect place to find what those common questions are. Or even doing things like even if you've got no internal knowledge at all for whatever reason, which if anyone were to say that, I don't think I'd believe them. But if you've got nothing internal even going to things like Google Suggestions or Google Trends, you know, when you're in in a search engine, you start typing and then it auto completes the sentence based on regularly or common asked questions or search within search for the top five questions within a particular subject or what do I need to know about a particular subject? All of those things, the external research as well as the internal research are great Ways of narrowing in on those common questions and then depending on what you identify at that common level, then think about, okay, well, what are the better questions to ask? So again, going back to people like the sales team or the customer service guys and posing the question to them, if you could tell people just the three pieces of information that would be the most valuable for them coming on board or trying to resolve this particular issue, what would those questions be? All of those are great ways of structuring the book around a particular topic, understanding what people typically ask, and then leading people towards a better outcome, a better solution by asking better questions. I mean, I hope I'm just noticing the time and again we're kind of blasting past the 30 minute mark. But I mean, the aim really on this call was to help people understand that there isn't, you don't need to over complicate it even at the most straightforward level. And straightforward could be. This isn't a kind of a reflection on how simple it could be. Straightforward could still be relatively complicated if you're targeting people at that level. But straightforward just in the, in the structure, not overthinking, creating it, but helping people identify a few straightforward ways of engaging with that target market, of understanding that probably all of the knowledge that you've got that you need in order to get that conversation going is in your head already. So rather than focusing on making it more complicated, instead focus on bringing value. So within the questions that you are

Guest: going to answer, within the, in your head already. I, I don't, you know, I talked about people being ego driven, but there's also a whole element of people that we deal with that when I say that like you are, you know, you've been doing this 15 years, 20 years, 10 years, whatever, you're an expert in your field. Everything that, everything that you want to put on paper is in your head. And those people who want to complicate it, they want to put it on paper before putting it on paper. You know, and I'm constantly saying don't, you know, don't. You don't have to. It's, it's there. You speak to people every day about the subject matter. You know, you, be it real estate or finance or insurance or, you know, dentist practices or what have you, it's all there. You have all that information, you and people, I mean, and I feel like I really have to drill that into them too because people don't want things to be that simple, you know.

Stuart: Yeah, trying to, as we started, I mean, that's a Good loop. Background to where we started. There is that desire to overcomplicate it and whether it's a fear of getting started or this kind of analysis paralysis type thing, but there is a desire, there is a desire to just avoid pulling the trigger and doing it and getting it out there. And it's so difficult for us because we see so many success stories of people that have just pulled the trigger, have done it, have got something out there, and then it's led to unexpected success or unexpected outcomes in a way that the only way they would have gotten to that point is by starting. So it's, it's difficult not to get too impassioned about it and say to people, just pull the trigger. This isn't a five year commitment, this isn't a 20 grand commitment. This is just 90 minutes of your time, $1,800 of your money. Pull the trigger on it and see where it leads. And I think you'll be surprised by the outcomes and whether that leads to a series of further books, whether it leads to a pivot into something like the call we had with Kevin Craig. Earlier in the year, a whole separate coaching business came up because of writing something that was originally intended just as a way of stopping and having to have the same conversation with people over and over again. But just pull the trigger, get it out there. It's. Yeah. Difficult not to get.

Guest: Yeah. Well, you brought up Kevin Craig. I use him a lot as an example because I think people do, what am I going to do with this? Or what's going to come of this? I really don't know what's going to come of this. It really depends on how you put yourself out there and how you market the book when the end result is finished. But I think if they're listening to this right now and they're on the fence about doing a book with us or they're looking to do maybe a bigger kind of book or whatever. Listen to some of those interviews that we have with people on how they're using, how you're using the book and the successes that are coming from it. And I think hearing those real life stories definitely will help you all make a decision. Someone make that decision to pull the trigger on this. You know, if you're on the fence, listen to the handful of those, just those stories. Because for the handful that we have, we have a whole lot more, you know, that we haven't recorded the podcast with or what have you. So that's a great resource that we have on the website. End of the interviews to listen to those. Those folks and what they're doing and success that they're having.

Stuart: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that is a great way to end. So we will. I'll put links to a couple of things we mentioned in here. Head over to 90minutebooks.com podcast and all of the transcripts in the show notes will be in the episode. I'll also put a link to the More Cheese, Less Whiskers episode tomorrow of With Scott where they were talking about narrowing down that single target market because. And start with the end in mind. I think that's gonna be another great resource. And then just get started. Head over to 90 Minute Books, follow the get started links. We'll be there to pick up the. Pick up a call and kind of hold your hand through it, get it out there. And who knows, I mean by. It's just coming to the beginning of September, so by the end of the year, definitely you can have something out there that's really kind of identifying those invisible leads and. And who knows where it'll lead. So anything, Anything else before we close?

Guest: No, I always think that these conversations lead to other conversations that I think, oh, we need to talk about that a little bit more in the next podcast. So, you know, I have my notes like, okay, maybe we need to talk about that a little bit more next time.

Stuart: So 30 minutes goes too quick.

Guest: Yeah, it goes by very fast. So.

Stuart: Okay, well, thanks, everyone. Like I say, head over to 90minutebooks.com podcast for the show notes on this. If you've got any questions or want to get started, then either shoot us an email to supportinightyminutebooks and we'll be able to answer them or just click on that get started button and we can look forward to recording a show about your book in the not too in the future. So thanks, Betsy. Thanks, everyone. We will speak soon right here.