Getting Down The Mountain with Joe Yocavitch

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Stuart: Welcome to another episode of the Book More Show. It's Stuart here and today we've got a great guest with us. We've got Joe Yakovic, who has just finished a slightly arduous process through compliance, but we've got through a book called Getting down the Mountain. Joe, how's it going?

Joe Yocavitch: Very good, very good. Other than the 14 inches of snow and the Eagles winning about a month ago, I'm feeling real strong today.

Stuart: We were just saying before we started, my fiance's across in Philadelphia, so while I'm in the uk, I was guiltily looking at a picture of her shoveling at the snow this morning, which made me feel bad. And then Jo felt the same. So today we're going to run through, as I mentioned, Joe's just recently finished his book. So we're going to take this as a great opportunity to spend half an hour and do some kind of real life brainstorming on some of the beyond the book stuff that we've talked about or will be talking about over the next couple of shows when we go through the book blueprint scorecard. So I guess a good place to start, Jo, is if you give us a bit of, or give the listeners a bit of a background on yourself, your practice, what brought you to writing a book, and then kind of leading into what the book's about. And then we can bridge that into where we go from there now that it's, now that it's written.

Joe Yocavitch: I came into the business different than most people. I was a professional athlete for a football team here in kc and then as I progressed, knowing that I was never going to do that forever, I got into the financial business. And I've been doing in the financial business arena for 33 years now. And I've always collected information and I go to seminars and workshops and what have you. And I've collected so much data from probably the smartest minds on the planet. And I just collected it and collected and collected. And I said, someday, someday I'm going to be able to write a book. And with the time we're doing our business and raising a family, et cetera, et cetera, you never get around to spend the time to be able to write a book or thinking about writing. So I keep on collecting these boxes of information. So when it came time when you guys were on the radar screen, I immediately thought, well, what a great way to take that information of some 30 years and put it into a book format. So you made it very easy for me. As such, the only people that did make it easy for me was my compliance department, which we worked through and a lot longer than I'd like to tell you. But I was pursuing and I was not going to not let this thing take off and run with it. So I couldn't be happier with your persistency and my persistency of working together and having the writers that helped me put this together. And we call it getting down the mountain. And basically just a snapshot of everybody focuses on getting up the mountain or putting money away. But no one in my business have actually had the discussion on how do you get the money out of the things that you're in. And that was, to me, that was like the key element of my conversation for the last some 25, 30 years. And when you put it into a book format, it all makes sense.

Stuart: It's definitely one of those things that so much of the marketing and so much of the experience of the public around financial planning is around putting the money in in the first place. I think it's one of the key things that can make such a difference. Thinking about how to. Well, like we say with the books to a certain degree, kind of start with the end in mind, and then it helps you guide the path to get from the beginning to the end. The customers that you're talking to, the clients that you have, do they find that this is a new approach? Do they often go into it thinking about just the climbing up and not the getting down?

Joe Yocavitch: Well, my conversation has changed dramatically over the some 25, 30 years in this business. And it changed from. From chasing rates of returns to having people understand that it's not about that it's more important of where your wealth is located than what it earns. You know, our philosophy in the book and we talk about it, and everybody has been using that philosophy. It's more about the swing than the club. If you think about the analogy with a golfer, a pro, everybody focuses on golf clubs. And in our business, everyone focused on the club. How to sell the club, how to give the club. And our philosophy has always been swing. Swing. We were big believers in that. So when a book came out, I was able to take that information and put it in a book format, Even to the point where if people do not want to read the book or read the whole 100 and something pages, it started out with 140 and ended up getting weeded out and chopped up by the compliance. It's about 105, 106 pages now, I think. And actually I point out certain pages for the person to look at. So when I give them the book and maybe they will or will not read the book, I'll say, take a Look at page 38 and page 52. These are two critical pages or critical sections of the book that really will highlight the conversation of the book. And then you can read the whole book. So we sometimes give them the opportunity to read the whole book, which we want them to, but it also gives them an opportunity to say, if you don't gonna read the book, just make sure you check out these two or three chapters in the book.

Stuart: Yeah, and that is such a great way of thinking about it. I was talking with Betsy on the show last week as we record, talking about the constraints, the beneficial constraints to put around creating the book so that you kind of dial in the, in the scope. And as part of that, we were talking about the table of contents and the fact that really the person that receives it, particularly books like this, as opposed to like a bestseller narrative book, where the job of work is entertainment, here really the job of work is education and motivation. So I think most people receiving the book like this, ideally they just want the knowledge through osmosis. They just want to be able to get all of the benefits just from having it. It's almost giving them an extra job, more effort to make them actually read it. So we were talking in terms of the table of contents. Make sure that the structure there is such that if they just like the title, think they're getting a benefit from the title that resonates with them, then flip it open and see the table of contents. So then that resonates further and further reinforces that they're in the right place. What you're talking about is a further step down analogy of saying, okay, you don't need to read all of it, but here are the two or three key sections that even if you've only got five minutes, look at this. And this will help you achieve what you're trying to achieve. The reason that you requested the book in the first place.

Joe Yocavitch: And then something else, Stuart, that we took, and I know you had this conversation with us before we got online was I took the book and I blew up the COVID because we do workshops. So now when you walk into my workshop, you see a big sign of my cover of my book. And now we're in the process of taking the book title and book cover and put it onto a small brochure. So instead of handing the book out or give the book or have it being sold, I'll have a brochure on my workshop to be able to reiterate about the book in itself. So that has been a process of going through that, which is, I think that's much easier than obviously writing a book because of the appliance issue. But it's duplicate of just reiterating what we. The other thing that most people in our business and they start, they're starting to understand this is it's no longer an art and a science. It's more logic and common sense. And I say this in my workshops and with clients. You know, I don't know if you know this or not, Stuart, but I have a PhD in common sense and people laugh and it's kind of funny because it's all about common sense of what we do. We make a very complicated subject and we do our best to make it as simple as possible. But most people that are in our space, they want to share with the client how smart they are or how much strategies or how much of the illustrations are dictating. But basically it's conceptually first. And this is a perfect way to show a client because I have a lot of graphs in the book also and backed up with fact of where these graphs came from. So it's quite interesting. I'm looking forward to because I just received my first hundred books in the mail, but I think I was sharing with you. I was on a plane going to LA at a convention and purposely for high end net worth, grabbing the elephant, bagging the elephant. It was really interesting. When I went out there, I was on the plane flying out there, I had about a half, I don't know, three or four books in my bag. And I gave the lady next to me the book and within a half of the book she said, this is unbelievable. Can I have your business card? And then when I got to the presentation I was listening to, it was really interesting because all the information that was in the book was actually being told to me on the platform that they were doing different numbers. They were throwing, you know, tens of millions of dollars around like we throw around in this area and decently nickels and dimes out there. They were just talking bigger numbers. But the conversation was the core conversation is exactly what's in this book. It was always eerie when I was speaking. It was funny when I was talking to the main guy and the main

Stuart: platform guy still exactly as you said. I think it's the same concepts, just the different scale. I really like the point that you were talking about simplifying it and making it straightforward, particularly in the financial services sector. So my background's on the IT side of financial services. So a lot of the terminology that's used within that and the language used within the organization that makes perfect, perfect sense as an insider. But to the outsiders, to the customers, it can definitely sound exclusionary. So I think one of the real benefits of having read through yours and looking at the details that are in there, there's information to help people take their understanding to the next step, but the language is very accessible. It's not trying to be exclusionary. It's not trying to prove how clever someone is. It's about helping someone make it to the next step. And that next step isn't solving all of the problems for themselves, but it's just knowing where to go to get the information. And obviously, working with you guys is a great way of doing it because you've got.

Joe Yocavitch: We came up with that idea on about the. The mountain purely as I was going to these workshops and I would, you know, envision what I'm going to say or. Or the conversation, it became apparent to me to, you know, everyone's trying to, you know, climb the mountain, you know, climb up to the top to have enough money to take you down the. Down the mountain. But then we started to realize that, you know, if you climbed Mount Everest, you know, 75% of the people that climbed Mount Everest died coming down the mountain. So we use that in our book. It's a fact. And you look it up, you just find out. So we have that in conversation. So it's not just getting up with, you know, putting money in at different, you know, different times of the market or what you're doing, going through life, but it's how to get that money out. Uncle Sam and inflation and health care and some of the uncertainties that no one ever talks about, you know, unemployment, for instance. And when I say unemployment, I'm just talking about, you know, your wife dies before you. You lose her Social Security. That's a conversation that you should have with a client. That depends on that. So it's. It's so much stuff, and we try to do it in a book and very quickly with backup material to make it point with, like you said when I was talking to your people, it's taking action now. It's sharing that book. And I've been handing it out. Only had a, you know, 10 of them, and I've handled every one of them out until I got my shipment today for 100. So I'm really looking forward to how this is going to be implemented in my, my practice and also with the workshops that I, I'm doing. So.

Stuart: Fantastic. So let's look at that then and bridge this into what we do now that it's created. So at the moment, do you have a particular plan in mind for how you might use them or a particular group of people that you're looking at first targeting with these books?

Joe Yocavitch: Well, I am. No, not specific, but I'm going to try to just, I guess I shotgun approach because I have so many people in my practice that I do business with. There's not one, you know, I don't just do business with doctors or professionals or I deal business with lunchbox people. They're making, you know, 200,000 up to a million. I call that lunch bucket people. And you know, dual incomes, small family or older people in their 50s or 60s. And my approach is first to go after and I have been going after the professionals and position ourselves with the other CPAs and tax attorneys to work with. You know, how is your plan? And asking more and better questions. This book has given me the power to be able to do so, you know, asking what does your plan look like? How do you do what you're going to try to do in terms of spending the money? And then you're lucky, you might make it to 100 years old. Now what do you do and have you put enough away and how you're going to take it out? It becomes a major conversation. So just a conversation. And with the book attached to my conversation, I'm looking forward for, you know, see how that would work right now I've been, I'm still a, you know, an amateur, just handed a book out and so far I've gotten pretty good, you know, you wrote a book, oh, great, I can't wait to see will you sign it for me? Kind of thing so far. So it's like, yeah. So I'm like, okay.

Stuart: It's a good way of introducing a conversation when you're there in front of people. It's. It's a talking point that yes, absolutely, might be more uncomfortable to bridge into it. We've got a couple of ideas that we usually throw out with people when we're talking just to talk around a couple of different ideas. So let's dive into those and then some of them will resonate, some of them won't. Some of them might just be a seed that sows now and comes up next year sometime. But a good place now is probably run through those four or five and then some of those might really resonate and then we can dive into them a bit deeper. Some of them might not be quite as relevant today. So you were talking about the workshops that you guys were doing. Let's dive into those a little bit. There's been a couple of the More Cheese, Less Whiskers podcasts. I don't know if you've seen that series. It's one that Dean does for the the Other side of our business. But the last two shows that are published as we're recording today were for people who one was a financial advisor guide, the other one was a medical practice. And both of them, their current funnels, were around inviting people to a workshop on a subject. And then from the workshop they converted people in the room. So workshop that you talked about, was that a similar model or is that for people who already engaged?

Joe Yocavitch: Well, yeah, I would definitely consider that. I tried that a few times and it, like everything else, I tried it, it worked. And I stopped doing it.

Stuart: I went back, take the box and move on.

Joe Yocavitch: I made money there. Why should I continue? I'm going back to old school a little bit and I'm doing some workshops at some restaurants, high end work, you know, area where I live. And a little within A probably a 30 minute read, I have a presentation we called Smart A Strategic Movement Around Retirement Taxation. And I use that workshop. It's an hour long, but it's given me some ideas because already my room has already been filled up. I have probably both nights, Tuesday And Thursday, over 40 units are coming in to see me to hear what I have to say. It's just funny you sit here asking that question because I just was on a phone call yesterday about a doctor's organization, Physicians for in New Jersey. And I got the director on the phone and I told her about the book. She asked me, would you mind? Yes. Would you send it to me? I said, absolutely. I want to be part of your. Because they meet different counties, meet every month, and they'll have between 30 and 60 doctors that will meet and talk about whatever and they'll have a person that will talk for an hour in that conversation. So for me, I plan on using that book as my entree. I'm going to be sending it to this young lady now and I don't know what's going to happen. I can't imagine it not being good, you know, because she was very interested. And I said to her after the conversation, Stuart, which is really kind of ironic, she says, no one ever talks about taxes. I go, really? I said, you know, at the end of this conversation with me and you, I'm going to probably make you a client. I'm looking forward to it. So she was so easy to speak with. Besides the book in hand and the conversation I'm having with taxation, it made it much more easier for me to have this conversation with that individual, I

Stuart: think because it takes the pressure off the topic. It's almost easier for people to talk about something when they're talking about the book rather than for them to talk about something and they're talking about their personal situation. It definitely eases that, that transition a little bit. The workshop that, the workshop where we've invited external people to, I'll just quickly run through the, the mindset that was shared in the other podcast. So inviting people to a, an event where it's tied to a specific time or place, the kind of synchronous. Synchronous requirements of you being free and then being free to a certain degree, means that not everyone, even if they were interested, would be able to do it just because the timing doesn't either the timing doesn't match up because not available, all the timing doesn't match up because they're not in that mindset just yet. So the suggestion was made to the other people was instead of advertising out to come to the event, advertise out the book. So that way it's a way of making those people visible from the invisible group in a way that kind of disconnects it from the synchronous requirements of them being in the right mindset that day and being in the right place on that day. So if you are advertising down that route, if you are spending money to collect those leads in the first place, it might be a more efficient way of doing it, of offering the book first and then the follow up sequence after they've requested it is to invite them to the event. All things being equal, the same people who are going to be going to the event would come anyway because they're in that same short funnel. But the ones who weren't ready yet or weren't available yet, you've still got the opportunity to capture those details and then have a conversation with them over a longer period and invite them to a later event rather than having to find them again and invite them again at that later date. So that was one way that the book could be used within the workshop funnel, the other way of using it in that context. And this bridge is slightly into the conversation you were having with the lady that you talked about and the organization is using the books. When you've got a physical, when you've got a physical presence, but you don't necessarily know who those people are. So that might be an event that you go to that isn't yours or if you're speaking at an event or you have an opportunity to speak at an event, but you don't have the opportunity to kind of capture the leads of those people and know who they are. So just sharing the physical copy or if it makes sense, give people the opportunity to opt in to get a copy of it. But in that presence where you're in front of them.

Joe Yocavitch: It was really interesting, Stuart, but since I had the book in hand and just a few I've handed out in my area because the shipment has not arrived yet until today, it was interesting. Even the books I've handed out, the people that I've handed it out to, I haven't done business with them yet. Some are clients of mine, so that's easy. They're going to look at them, they're going to look at the book and they're going to read it. They're going to give me and I asked immediate give them critique me on the book. One already said that's unbelievable is exactly what you have pretty much said to us when we started to work with you. So I took the book and I pretty much made it a first or second appointment in a conversation with the client. It was very conversational with my book. But the people I've handed it to, not just yet of doing business with me yet it's surprising the feedback and you can see the body language. You wrote a book so you almost immediately a credibility factor. I mean you could, you can see it from this, their physical, you know, when they, when they're talking to you, it's funny. And I go, no, yeah, just sign it like okay, sure. I'm signing books like I'm signing my order back in the day. And it's kind of funny. I mean it really has that. It's almost like you're, you're doing an out of body experience as you're speaking with these folks and you're signing a book. And I just say the same thing. All I keep chasing your dreams. Regards, Joe Yakovic. And I put my, you know, the date so I have, you know, something I say most of the time I use that just make it simple and clear. But it's really funny the ones I have given out the book to that the reactions and they're like, you wrote a book Meaning like I became this, you know, star overnight because I giving you 30 years of information, I actually wrote it down, which is, you know, which is that in itself is. I'm just experience that. So I'm very. I'm in the rookie year of that or rookie time of that in. Of being able to, you know, to do this. And I'm, you know, and that's what.

Stuart: That kind of authority or. Or presence that a physical book has. We talk about this quite a lot because it's both beneficial and it can catch you out a little bit as you're writing. Because whenever someone at not knowing the process that we've been through, the outsider sees it. There's a credibility and authority around just the fact that it's printed. Joe Public thinks that it is a lot of hoops to jump through and it's an exclusive club where the reality is, it is to a certain degree, because as we've experienced, there's a lot of kind of steps to get through particular when compliance are involved. But realistically speaking, it's not like you've got to. You don't need it to be signed off by a particular deity or authority to say that you can produce this. It's something that you can do by yourself. But the trick is to get out there and get on with it and do it and not let. Looking at the process at the beginning, not let it become overwhelming. Just do something and get it out there. Because to the public there's still the same authority whether it's created and printed by yourself or whether it's created and printed by Random House or another more traditional publishing organization.

Joe Yocavitch: I'm looking forward to do another. Another book too. Stuart. I mean, it just seems to me this is a perpetual momentum of now I got it and I understood it. I mean, it took a little longer because we talked about the compliance issue. So I kind of ready for the next book on something similar, but not the same. I mean, you could use it. I mean, you can say getting down the mountain for physicians or getting down a mountain for veteran or you can say, I mean, anything you can, you can spin off of that. But it's just amazing that the way that it has opened up another door of how I look at marketing and you're making. Mentioning the webexes and what have you. I would definitely think that be my next, you know, entree into the marketplace. Because let's face it, that's. That's what's happening now. You know, when I started out, that was not the case. So Evolution has, you know, and I'm always progressing to get, you know, better at what we do and for better language, better narratives and what have you. So I'm looking forward to it.

Stuart: Well, back to the conversation you're having with the lady from the doctors organization. Using it as an entry point, as a speaking point to other organizations is another great opportunity that I think have as well, particularly within the local area and that local area, depending on how densely populated it is, but there's probably a couple of larger cities not too far away. So having access to either professional groups like the doctors or business groups or chamber of commerce or federation of small Business or local Rotary clubs, all of those things where there's a concentration of people who are likely to be both your best clients and people who you can help best, using the book as an opportunity to start that conversation with the people who are organizing it. Because really from their point of view, they've got their members to satisfy. They know that they've got a schedule of events that they want to put on through the year. It's a headache and a pain for them to find people, reliable people, interesting people to come and speak at those events. So if you can step up and take some of that pain away from them and say, I'd love to be able to deliver this presentation to your guys. We've had some great feedback from it in the past. We've got a whole book that I can bring some copies to give to the guys and give them really a step by step approach to assess their current position. And that I think would be a great opportunity for your members.

Joe Yocavitch: I actually, and as you're speaking that way, and I started to use it this way also, not not even realizing what I was doing. I was handing books out also in the earlier stages before you had. Before I had to go to compliance again. This is the second time because you sent me a bunch of them. I handed them out to my own peer group guys in my own business. And I said, you can do joint work with me and you can use the book as your partner that wrote this book. So I'm actually inside my own operation of, in my space of talking to other advisors, planners, you know, whatever, you know, so they can promote me so we can do joint work. CPAs are a perfect example. I have to choose two CPAs that are very proactive. And when I hand them the book that's perfect, I'm gonna hand it to this guy. How many can you get me? 10 copies, they're asking me. So it's it kind of, it's starting to spin out in a way that I don't know where I'm going to be or how it's going to end up. I really don't. It's fun. It's fun because I'm kind of, I'm very. Because of my background being a sports person, I'm never satisfied from my last game I played. So therefore I'm always looking to get better, stronger, faster in the world that I live in. I'm like, this is fun. And you can really see when another professional takes your book and says that's exactly what I'm going to share that with me or with my clientele, I went, okay, so that's exactly where I'm at right now.

Stuart: Well, that opportunity comes under something we talk about in terms of complementary non competing businesses. So depending on the as the kind of circle of influences goes further and further out from you. So that first level is the close people that you're currently working with in some way and then it goes out to those people that you've got a relationship with but not necessarily working and then wider and wider people from there. So an opportunity is to look for other complementary non competing businesses where you providing that book to them to add value to their customers who might well turn out to be your customers as well, is one opportunity. And the other opportunity, the people who you were just talking about, those guys in that first circle out, the ones that you've got a relation, a working relationship with already, there might be an opportunity to kind of prime the pump a little bit more and give them a little bit more of a funnel to help convert clients. So whereas at the moment without the book, they're just out there doing their own thing with the book, it gives them another asset, something to start a conversation. But if you get to the stage where you can follow up that conversation in a way that adds even more value. So for example, there might be something like the part of the onboarding questionnaire or part of the due diligent due diligence that you do. There might be some standard tools that you've got access to that just give a kind of a very finger in the air type assessment of where someone is or you might have something like an infographic or a chart or a spreadsheet, something that potential customers can add a little bit of their own information and get something out of it that kind of furthers that thought. So if there are things like that that you can create both for your own funnel but also give it to the other guys for their funnel as well. As long as you know that that's eventually working its way back to you. Yeah, might be a way of juicing it up a little bit.

Joe Yocavitch: I was shocked. Stuart and I got back from LA and I didn't give the whole detail to you, but the main presenter and this guy is a genius. And he was saying things to me that obviously not obviously, but that my book almost resonates with. But he says positioning is so important. Meaning that our profession unfortunately sometimes looked at down like we're like some kind of used car sales. We're more professional. I mean it's sad, it's. But it's true. It's because you have so many different type of people doing with, you know, some of them just strictly are selling clubs and nobody really takes it vested interest. So therefore, to me, when he said that on stage, it's positioning and being able to teach that person that you're going to refer to or he's going to refer to your or his client, you need to have that person be taught on how to make that introduction. We need to be the ones to be able to do that. Not the accountant, not the tax attorney. Remember, in my world, they need us more than we need them, bar none of what we do. We're the interpreter, so to speak, to the client. Now if you can position yourself with the book to that other professional and have that professional in the room when you're talking to the client, it makes everything easier. And that was where I was at in LA for a week. And it was amazing from my book, what the information was in it from what they were saying was very much duplicate other than the numbers being with them. They were throwing numbers around like was nothing. So it was kind of interesting that the book that I was in my hand thinking, I'm looking around the room, I'll give you an example. I'm looking around the room and this gentleman was talking for probably 45 minutes non stop, didn't take any breath. I mean he was like. And I was copying like an animal. I'm like, I'm just, I. No kid, I probably say I probably wrote down 12 or 14 pages of notes. I walked up to him and I said, I introduced myself. He kind of knew who I was and I kind of knew what he did in terms of athletically. He was a good handball player back in the day and he knew I was a ball player. And we kind of yucked it up a little bit. I said, I got a question for you, Simon. Why isn't it that I looked around your room and it was like 50 guys, the top guys in the world that were at this convention. I said, I'm the only guy that's taking notes and nobody else was taking notes. And I'm just taking more notes because I can't hear it often, you know.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah. People in that environment, not, not tucking in as much as they possibly could.

Joe Yocavitch: Yeah, I'm a SpongeBob, so I want to be able to take the book, share it with people and see how they react to it. But lucky for me, I wrote the book in a way that it's common sense. Ish. It wasn't like real techie. It was, it was more a little bit of a storytelling. And I got help from your people and they come back and forth with me. What do you like? What do you don't like? What do you think? What do you don't think? And they were very easy to work with. But like I said, the compliance department got me a little bit and just changing some simple words from, you know, most to some, which I did, was through the book. But at the end of the day, I'm looking forward to it. Like I'm looking forward to what you mentioned about the webexing. I think that would be perfect for my practice because we're somewhat, I mean, I'm not going to say I'm a super IT guy, but I know enough about, you know, how some of the stuff works and how social media has been taking off and now I can use Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook and everything that goes along with that with my website because I do have a nice. And the website, believe it or not, because of you and because of the website. At the same time, I changed the whole. The front cover of my website, it now has a mountain on. Duplicated. It's duplicated in my book. So.

Stuart: You talk about the positioning and differentiating. I think that consistency all the way through one opportunity might be the smart framework that you talked about as your prime delivery methodology. Kind of taking ownership of that even to the next level and branding that little bit more. And on the back of the book, not physically on the back of the book, although technically you could do, but on the, the follow up sequence after the book, introducing people to that smart methodology. And if there was an easy way for them to get started, like the, the 101 level smart assessments that you make available to people, they can do by themselves to kind of start that process. But then obviously the real steps is when you take it to to the next level. So there might be an introductory level smart assessment that without falling foul of compliance or without giving too much away or without making it too complicated, that might be that transitional piece. And allowing the guys that you're working with to suggest that people go down the smart approach route so they've come from the other person to the. The 101 level smart assessment, that introductory piece. And then the next level, obviously, is to get with you guys and dig into it a little bit more. That might be.

Joe Yocavitch: I don't know. I don't know about the uk, Stuart. I don't know about the uk, but the people in us, they have a tendency to be very close to the vest on information in terms of what they know in the financial world. And unfortunately they don't. They really, as much as we believe as advisors, as planners, even though they look at you and they nod their heads, they still don't know what's going on because there's too many things going on. I mean, let's face it, in our country, it's. It's amazing. I don't have to tell you, you know, I mean, our president itself is, you know, every day it's something different than what we should be talking about, you know, creating new jobs and what have you.

Stuart: But, yeah, there's a lot going on. It's complicated. It's something that people are pushed away from. The finances, now I'm talking about people are pushed away from because they're scared of making the wrong choice. They don't have enough knowledge. So I think anything to ease that process, just one step at a time really moves that conversation.

Joe Yocavitch: They're embarrassed. I mean, Stuart, they're really embarrassed to share with you sometimes. So the book gives me kind of a really interesting, you know, kind of a track to share with them is this is what we do and this is how and why we do it. Read the book before you meet me or look at the book before we have our meeting, whatever. So it's really interesting how I position the book. And believe me when I say this to you, I'm still going up alleys that I don't know if it's the right alley or not, but I know it's only positive stuff that when I do this and say this to folks that I get a great feedback. So for me, it's just. Okay. So when you're telling me what you're telling me today, you know, I'm definitely going to, you know, let the old. Let Mikey try it first. And I'm going to definitely give it a 10 because it's easy and it's, you know, it's clean and it makes sense. It's almost unfailable. It's something that what the pricing of it is almost. I went outside and got more information to be able to give you more content on what we're doing. But you if it's really interesting, I'm kind of like I'm liking this ride right here so far and I haven't even made a lot of money doing it. I just know it's been a credibility factor and it's just a matter of time before it starts to turn big time because of what I'm doing.

Stuart: In the first few days there's been positive results and you can see that continuing over time. And of all of the times you take the swing, not all of them are going to be a home run or a touchdown, but the ones that are, are. It's now easy to do because you've got a tool that helps that. Another thing, I'm conscious of the time slightly, I don't want to keep you too long, but a couple of other things that are worth mentioning, I think just continuing this thought of taking people to the next step, so having something in between them requesting a copy of the book in the first place and actually walking through the door as a client to try and grease that path a little bit, make it easier for them to kind of evidence to themselves that they should take the next step. One of the things I'd suggest looking at is either the book blueprint score or the profit activator score. Those two websites, which are the scorecards that we have for both the book process and the breakthrough DNA process, the broader coaching program on the other side. So that's bookbullyprint. So bookblueprintscore.com and profitactivatorscore.com so the scorecard idea is a strategic coach idea of creating a scorecard that allows people to assess and measure themselves across eight mindsets. In theory, then once they've kind of scored themselves on the scorecard, they can see where the gaps are and then as part of the broader conversation, you can fill those gaps. So it might well be something that you could create the smart scorecard again around that framework. Five of the eight mindsets will be covered just by the smart framework itself. So when we talk about things like how the the family assessment. Have they had a conversation with their family recently, the diagnostic review, do they understand? Are they comfortable with the current market trends or economic Things offensive versus defensive. That might be two mindsets where they can score themselves on how comfortable they are against that. But take a look at those two websites, because creating a scorecard that supports the smart methodology might be a great way of introducing them in the first place, identifying them as an invisible prospect through the book. They've read the book and things start resonating with them so that you then give them the offer to complete their own scorecard. So it's not like they have to be embarrassed about answering the questions because they're doing this themselves. It's not that they have to be nervous about knowing all of the financial answers because it's straightforward. But then at the end, end of the scorecard, follow up with them again to say, okay, typically we see these three things. Either someone caught scores low across the board, in which case it might not be something that you've thought about at all. And now, having done the scorecard, there's a couple of pointers here for how to take the first steps. Most people score somewhere in the middle, High in some areas and low in others because they've got previously had an interest in those areas. So now's an opportunity to, to assess those low areas and see if you can really improve your position by doing this, this, and this. And obviously some of those answers are working with you. Or the third level, people score themselves highly across the board, in which case you just want to assess that you're not being overly confident or make sure that the information that you're scoring yourself highly against is still current. And again, the best next step might be to come into the office and we can do a full review. So something like that might be a nice way of stepping.

Joe Yocavitch: Yes, absolutely. You sound like you wrote my. You read my book already because you used words diagnostic, which we use in our, in our brochure. And believe it or not, I was a big advocate of a guy named Dan Sullivan. If you don't know who Dan is, I'm sure you do. He was my mentor for about 10 years, and he must have said to me, I can't even tell you how many times you got to write a book. You, you got to write a book just to get a brochure out. Because most of us, I would say myself, I'm a little ADD and type A. So I don't have, you know, I'm a fast start. So to be able to actually sit down and do this would forget it. But when I finally, finally did the book, I took a lot of the brochure that he kind of held the gun to my head and said, you got to do this, and this is what. And I got it off the table. Took me a long time to do that, but then I took that and I put that in the back of my book and I used the last pieces, the financial playbook, to help you implement the plan. So what you're saying is right online in that corridor of all the opportunities that are endless, it's just. I'm like a little kid in a candy store. I don't know where to turn.

Stuart: That's always the risk, isn't it? Well, I think as we kind of come towards the end of the time then, and to wrap it up in some action, some of those things. And obviously the podcast will be live, but I'll send you the recording of this afterwards anyway, and then this can be something to kind of jump back to in the future, I think maybe the initial steps, doing exactly what you're doing at the moment and using it in the opportunities as they present themselves is perfect. The only. The other thing that might be a good opportunity now, because the point in time now is it's just launching, is to send that email to all of the existing clients that you've got and maybe segment them in slightly different ways if you want to tweak the language a little bit broadly, which would be to send an email out to everyone just mentioning that you've launched the book and you would love to send them either a physical or a digital copy of it, depending on what makes financial sense. And more importantly, use it as a referral opportunity. So saying that the reason that you're getting this email is because we've had a conversation in the past. So I know that this is something that is important to you and you're interested in. So hopefully the book provides some more value to you. But what it can really do is introduce some of these subjects and conversations to friends and family. So I'm definitely not suggesting that you give me their names and email address and that type of thing, but if you've got a family member, this would be beneficial to feel free to either share it with them or let us know and we can send you a copy of the book to give to them. And then if you go down that route, include it with a letter on where they can find out more. And that might be pointing them to the smart video that you've got on the website, because that's a good introduction to the subject.

Joe Yocavitch: This is beautiful. You know why? Because you said something earlier, but I don't think you realize it. This is so. To me, this is the most inexpensive way to get recognized that I can. I mean, it's almost embarrassing for me because it's. I would have rather. I don't know what I would have done differently other than I know I talked to your people there. I said, should I put a hard copy on a book? Hard copy. I was like, hard. No, Joe, you don't need to do that. I want to spend more money to achieve it. But I mean it is a great, great leveraging tool. I mean, I just. I'm looking forward to having a conversation with you you in a year from now and share with you that I have another book or what it has done for us and our firm.

Stuart: Yeah, that's going to be fantastic. And exactly as you say. I think when you think about what this compares to. So the cost of even printing and shipping a book to someone is less than. Substantially less than $10. The amount willingly pay for a lead.

Joe Yocavitch: Forget it.

Stuart: As long as the math works out. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's such a great and different opportunity.

Joe Yocavitch: Absolutely.

Stuart: Okay. I'm conscious of your time and I just looked at my calendar and I've got something after this as well.

Joe Yocavitch: I didn't make it easy for me. I made it easy for you. You made it easy for me.

Stuart: Fantastic. Is there anything that you particularly want to talk about that we haven't had a chance to cover? I'm always conscious about talking too much and missing.

Joe Yocavitch: I'm just happy that I found you guys and I really looking forward to a future book. Right now I'm going to play this out as fast, as hard as I can. I think it's an opportunity that we haven't had in the past. I have one of my. Actually my son is getting in the business so it's a great tool for him now. So he's a 24 year old and he has no baggage and I don't have to unteach him or unlearn him what he new from the traditional way. So it's kind of easy. He's also a sponge and he can use his book to help his career and launch his career. But it really is an opportunity and I'm very excited about it and being dealt with. Your folks there, very professional. I mean I can't tell you enough because I'm meticulous about that. So I have to applaud you for that. And you make it very simple. And the hardest part is just like you said, starting it, you know, you know, getting it started is the toughest thing and we're looking forward to it.

Stuart: Groundhog Day movie. It's the first step. That's a doozy. Well, thanks for those kind words. I'll make sure that the team hear that because it's always. It's always nice to be able to pass that through. I think really being able to talk to people like we've had this conversation, that really what makes the difference because it's hearing how people are using it. And I'm super excited to catch up a little bit down the track and see how it's going and strategize on the next call.

Joe Yocavitch: Me too.

Stuart: Perfect. Okay, guys. Well, as you're listening to this, we've obviously talked around lots of ideas here. So the transcript, as always, will be on the show notes. And the show notes are across it 90minutebooks.com podcast. And this will be. Well, in fact, I'm not sure which episode this is because we've got another one to slip in before it. So this is either going to be episode, I think 56 or 57. So have a look around there for Joe's name and take a look at the. At the show notes. So thanks again for your time, Joe. It's been a pleasure and we'll speak in the future.

Joe Yocavitch: Thank you very much.