Happy Homeowners with Jim Rollo

Stuart: Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of the book More tripping over my words. Welcome to another episode of the book More Show. It's Stuart here and today we don't have Betsy Vaughan, but we do have Jim Rollo with us. And Jim's one of our customers. Just finished writing his book, the Happy Homeowner. And we were. Jim was talking with Betsy and wanted to jump on a call just to run through what brought Jim to the point of writing the book and how they're engaging with their audience because I think they've got an interesting framework and interesting proposition and then it leads through to a scorecard which we've spent a lot of time talking about over the last couple of months on the show. So seemed like a great opportunity. So Jim, welcome to the show.

Jim Rollo: Thank you, Stuart. Great to be here.

Stuart: I'm looking forward to this. We were just talking as we were getting set up offline and running through the looking at the details of the book and thinking as we were getting ready for the call, I was thinking how this sits in quite nicely with the framework of the scorecard that we were talking about. I think the best place to start probably is if you introduce yourself and your organization and then we can get into the details of the book and how it's engaging.

Jim Rollo: Sure, be happy to. I am an insurance agent and have been since August of 2007. Prior to that, I worked in international business development in Latin America and working in the tag and label business. So we were making all of the garment labels for companies like Nike and Levi and Reebok and Old Navy and Gap.

Stuart: It's so interesting where people you tend to think of big organizations. I know if you've listened to a few of the shows before, when we come up with examples, we kind of automatically default to the same couple of examples that come to mind. But your background, not so much the business you're in there, but that label, tag and label business. There's so many multimillion dollar what appear as tiny niches but are actually huge that it's super interesting.

Jim Rollo: Well, it's actually a multi billion dollar market, the tag and label business for apparel and footwear. It's a multi billion dollar business. Right.

Stuart: And one of those things that blends into the background but of course it's such a big underlying thing underlying business that supports things that as a consumer you don't necessarily notice.

Jim Rollo: Well, and I think it's important to. So the relevance of that piece of my history is very pertinent when it comes to the book. Happy Homeowner. And I'll draw the parallel so you can, you know, the listeners can connect. So when we were in the tag and label business, we were a printing company, right? Now if I were to say, well, we're in the printing business, then all kinds of images could come to your mind. Well, you could say, well, do you print books? Do you print catalogs and brochures? And well, the answer was no. We're going to be very focused and we're going to zero in on one market segment and we're going to become the world leader and we're going to be exceptional and we're going to provide service levels to customers in that segment that no one else can touch.

Stuart: Right.

Jim Rollo: And so as a printing company, we went after the tag and label business and became very good at it. And so in the insurance business, I stepped back and looked at that experience with the tag and label business and I said, well, what business am I in? Am I in the insurance business or am I in the business of helping homeowners preserve their dream of homeownership for a lifetime?

Stuart: Right.

Jim Rollo: And so, you know, so the insurance business in our case is a very broad. If I say to you we're in the insurance business, you could think of. There are many images that come up in your mind when I say the insurance business. But if I say to you we're in the business of happy homeownership. And so I've been working in my insurance business for 11 years, consistently improving our capability in the residential real estate market.

Stuart: And that's such a fantastic connection between the two. Seeing the success that you had by choosing that niche market, the people that you can make the biggest impact with, where you can focus all of the expertise and in an industry that's big enough to support yourselves in an industry that's enjoyable to be in, you've been in it for 11 years, so it's obviously something that you enjoy. But being able to dial that into the customer's outcome, what they're really looking for, rather than their kind of inside view of within the insurance game. And it happens to be looking after homeowners. It's really. This is specifically targeted at looking at homeowners. I can imagine that that feeds through all of the other things that you do within the business, because you've got that frame already. There's constraint of its.

Jim Rollo: It absolutely does. It absolutely does. Right. So we're. So when a customer chooses us to protect their home, then as a follow on, they're saying, well, why don't you also insure my autos. Why don't you provide disability income protection for us? Why don't you provide. Why don't you insure my boat? Why don't you provide my life insurance? So when we're providing an exceptional experience, a remarkable experience with their home, the acquisition of their home, or if they already are a homeowner, we have conversations with them no one else has ever had, then suddenly we're building a level of trust where they're eager to have us involved in other areas where they have insurance needs.

Stuart: Because you're the advocate for them, the champion for them. It's not selling a product as such. That's not the main lead in you're not going with the home insurance lead. It's the more customer centric view of how can we help you achieve a broader goal of being successful in a broader area, which naturally leads across multiple products. I can imagine that as you deal with them, that's because it's slightly uncommon approach. It's much more common for people to be very kind of execution and product centric. So I can imagine the people that you're working with appreciate that they do.

Jim Rollo: Right. And so there's multiple aspects to this. So the other part of what we do, and very important word is the word collaboration, right? So the other part of what we do is we are members, we're participants in the residential real estate market together with mortgage brokers, real estate agents, home inspectors, closing attorneys. And so we build and we create value for them that is compelling, that they then recommend us to their customers. So the real estate agents, mortgage brokers, home inspectors, closing attorneys are all recommending us to their customers to say we have to talk to these people. And so the book is a way in part to give those centers of influence that I mentioned, what I call centers of influence. Real estate agents, mortgage brokers, closing attorneys, home inspectors, a resource that they can then give to their customers, which is the book, a resource to say, hey, we care about you beyond the closing table, we care about you and your dream of homeownership for a lifetime. And the resources and information in this book are going to help you preserve your dream of homeownership for a lifetime. So as a participant in the residential real estate industry, we're adding unique value that is beneficial to the people that we collaborate with to create a remarkable experience for their customers.

Stuart: It's such a great example of. We did a show a couple of weeks ago, episode 61, called Working with Others. So we talked there a lot about this idea of working with complementary non competing businesses and being able to leverage and kind of amplify your expertise by helping someone else's audience. Because that collaboration approach that you talked about, particularly if everyone within the collaboration or the cooperative is thinking, has the same mindset. It's very much about everyone helping the end customer. But everyone brings their unique ability to it, their specialization, their desire to share information. The benefit that you have as the business owner is accessing a like minded group of organizations and then customers by starting the conversation with adding value. Do you find within those complementary non competing businesses, is everyone on the same wavelength or does it take a little bit of. Are there definitely people that get it and definitely people that don't get it in terms of this is kind of education first?

Jim Rollo: Yeah, there are, right. It's all over. It's all over the. You know, on a continuum from as you. To use your words, they get it to they don't get it. You know, on that continuum there are people at both ends and everywhere in between that are looking for a way to enhance their process. They have a collaborative mindset. And so we're looking for the people who say yes, I want to be a participant in this and I really see the value of what you're doing and I want my customers to have that experience. And so the book is only one piece of it. We have a whole customer experience for homeowners that is extremely unique. And there's really four things that we're doing. And in the consumer insurance business there's really four things that we're. That our process is designed to do. And the book is a big part of that. We're decommoditizing the commoditized. Right. So insurance in general has become commoditized. There's a commodity mentality and it's just go online and get your insurance and you know, the rest will take care of itself.

Stuart: Yeah, commoditizing. Yeah.

Jim Rollo: We're making the intangible tangible, right. We're making the forgotten remembered.

Stuart: Right.

Jim Rollo: And we're making the invisible visible.

Stuart: And that's an interesting point isn't. Because so many people I guess come into it from the point of view of this is a product that they hope never really that they hope they never have to use. It's not going out and buying something, a consumer product where the, there's a desire associated with the, the thing itself. This is very much making those intangible elements of it, the desire elements, the, the reassuring people of continuing to be able to achieve the Dream and the safety aspects and the. The reassurance elements, making those things tangible. Whereas the. Just the policy itself, although that's the product, is the kind of intangible element. It's an interesting approach.

Jim Rollo: Yes. And our. And I talk about this in the book. In our business, what we're offering people is a promise.

Stuart: Right.

Jim Rollo: And so if the day comes when what we call a storm of life appears out of nowhere, then the moment of truth comes when we are going to have the opportunity to deliver on the promise and be promise keepers and keep the promises that we've made to you, that if and when a storm of life comes up, we're going to step in on your behalf and help you recover.

Stuart: Right. That kind of those persuasion elements almost of in the book, starting to educate people on what the difference is between the commodity and the more real impacting elements if the policy was called upon. So including those in the book, some of the persuasion techniques of seeding the idea and starting that conversation early, I imagine that that then makes the follow on conversations as you move people towards a buying decision, a conversion point that makes that conversation easier because you've already sowed the seed of the idea, which is something you want to later amplify.

Jim Rollo: Yes. Yeah. And the dream. And so part of the message of the book is that the dream of homeownership is a lifetime dream. And I want to give special mention to your development team. Glenn worked with me on developing the COVID for the book. And I also worked with real estate agent, a particular real estate agent who was very insightful when it came to development of the COVID of the book to comply with a rule we have in the US about fair housing. So that any imagery on the COVID of the book or inside the book cannot indicate that we're interested in working with a particular type of people or type of person from a, you know, gender, age, race, any. Anything that would indicate we're only interested in working with a certain type of person.

Stuart: Right.

Jim Rollo: So if I put imagery on the COVID of the book or inside the book that showed any type of real people, then real estate agents would not be interested or even able to use the book because it would be a potential fair housing violation in the United States.

Stuart: That's an interesting point for the broader market as well. Kind of as people are listening to this and thinking about those unconscious biases that are just ingrained in everyone, because there's a kind of everyone that's got that kind of snap to grid mentality, a little bit of just recognizing the familiar and naturally being drawn to it. But sharing the COVID with other people or looking at it through the frame, the lens of a different question of is there any unconscious bias that's being brought into this? That's quite an interesting point to raise, regardless of whether there's actually a law around or a guideline around housing or industry specific things. But it's definitely something that we, when Glenn and Sarah are working with the covers, we try and keep them neutral as much as possible. But I think you're. The point that you raised about actually having that check and balance, that checkpoint to, to see if there is any unconscious biases crept into it is a great point.

Jim Rollo: Well, I would, I would say my lesson, my takeaway from that experience was and I would advise anyone who's working on a book that. And they say, well, I have a target audience. In my case, the target audience is the homeowner, but it's also the folks that we're going to collaborate with and the folks we do collaborate with in the real estate industry. So I went to them and said, here's my concept, here's what I'm thinking about, here's what I think my cover is going to look like. And so my target audience, the collaborators, if you will, I solicited their input and their feedback, which turned out to be very useful. So I would encourage anybody who's thinking about writing a book or who's in the process to wherever possible, really touch base with the folks that, that you're looking to work with, that you're hoping the book will benefit and get their input and feedback as early in the process as possible.

Stuart: Yeah, that's such a great point because so often we've talked about this a couple of times in the past that there's. The concept of writing a book is so overwhelming in many cases that it's thought of as a lock yourself away in a cabin for six months type process. And all of the focus is around the words itself. We try very much to come from the what's the job of work of this point of view, of this product, of this tool? What's the end goal? How is it going to work in a funnel? And almost then with all of the other steps in place, that the scorecard that the eight mindsets that we have, the writing the content in the center is almost the, it's one small element. And even within that, we kind of change the focus slightly. So I think the point that you raised about understanding how you intend to use it and who the end customers are, but Also the customers in the sense of those people that you want to work with and for each of those individual groups maybe ask the same set of questions. So who's this going to resonate with? Are there any issues that might come up? But change the lens slightly from the customer group to the. To the collaborator group almost consider it from each stakeholder's point of view is a great framework, a great quick check and balance that can quite quickly be done because it's the same framework but you're just changing the stakeholders. I think that's a great tip and pointer to people to kind of as early as possible. Exactly as you said, get those different elements of input because it's then easier to tweak and change and course correct as you go through rather than realizing it afterwards. Because you didn't engage everyone that you could have done within the. I guess the kind of opposite of that is don't no need to procrastinate and wait for too long because you're trying to get everyone's opinion. But definitely right.

Jim Rollo: I guess that would. If you're familiar with the Colby profile, it would on your Colby index. You know, so I'm a quick start in Colby, but also sort of wanting to check in with people quickly and move quickly and make decisions quickly. But I wanted to pick up on something you said a few minutes ago talking about I actually so a little background on starting to write a book. So I started writing a book like in late 2016 and I remember saying to my team, well, I'm going to lock myself away in a room for some untold number of months and sort of become the. And I might go to Cuba so, you know, I can become the next Hemingway. Right. So. Right. So then I read one of the books that I was given. I'm in the 10x program at strategic Coach with Dan Sullivan and he gave us a book that was written by a guy named Kim White. And Kim White gave credit to 90 minute books in his book and about how the process was so simple, et cetera. And I immediately contacted 90 Minute Books and they walked me through the process and I said, this is the answer to my prayers. I'll go to Cuba another time and enjoy the vacation. And enjoy a vacation as opposed to being locked in a room someplace. So I had been working on it and laboring over it painfully and you guys made it easy and I trusted the process. So, you know, several times I think Kim and or Betsy, you know, said to me, thank you for trusting the process and you know, walking through our process and so it's worked and we're. We're on the road so it's good.

Stuart: I've worked quite closely with Kim White rather than Arkim. We've also got Kim on the team, but. So Kim White, we worked together quite closely on the final stages and then some follow on stuff with his scorecard as well. And the benefit that all of the coach clients that we work with, it's very much that appreciation of the 80% rule and understanding what the job of work is that this isn't. The books that we're talking about are about engaging people and starting the conversation and moving forward and getting it done. It's not about. We're not talking about fiction books here and the words being the product. This is. It has a job of work to move the conversation forward and seeing people move through the process. Where Betsy was just talking to someone last week who we first talked to in 2015. So this is three years ago now at this point and they could have written 10 books in that time. But the resistance to get started or the perfectionism of wanting it to be perfect before it. It moves anywhere and all of that, all of those elements that bring in pieces of procrastination. That means three years goes by and it never even gets started. I think working with the coach guys particularly understanding that the benefit of the velocity and the getting it done and the 80% approach and this is version one and it has a job to do and you can never be sure about how successful the approach will be until it's out there and being tested. That kind of lean pivoting type approach that I think for you guys is. For us it's very. It's refreshing to work with people that think that way. But for you guys it just means it gets done. And I think. Was it in.

Jim Rollo: Oh, that's really the. That's really the. For us. So like you said, what's the purpose of the book is to start a conversation. And in our case, we want to start a conversation in a unique way. We want to start a conversation. I'm not interested in writing and nobody's interested in reading an insurance book.

Stuart: Right.

Jim Rollo: So if I want to get. I want to help you obtain your insurance license to become a licensed insurance professional, then that. That's not what I'm doing. I'm trying to start a conversation with people in a way that they've never had a conversation before and talk to them about what want in a way that has never happened before. And so. And then where the Conversation goes from there depends on the person. But. But it's really, as you say, it's meant to start a conversation about. And when you think about the title of our book, Happy Homeowner, the question is, who doesn't want to be a happy homeowner?

Stuart: Yeah.

Jim Rollo: Right.

Stuart: So there's definitely resonates with that group. So you were talking earlier about the broader group, the complementary non competing businesses you're working with as a channel to potential customers and that target audience. Are you looking at using the book in different ways, different channels as well, or is that the main.

Jim Rollo: Yes, I am actually. So there's. In our case, I am licensed and authorized in New York State and in Pennsylvania.

Stuart: Right.

Jim Rollo: The other states where we're not licensed, where we don't compete, we're not authorized or eligible to compete. Our entire framework that we've developed for the residential real estate market, including the book, is a framework that we're going to assist other insurance agencies to implement.

Stuart: Right, okay.

Jim Rollo: So that. I don't know if that answers your question, but that's. The other group is other insurance agents who are. And again, it's got to be a mindset. You know, there has to be. We have to be on the same page and we have to have the same mindset about being. They have to have the mindset of being collaborative with the members of the residential real estate industry in their local market.

Stuart: Yeah.

Jim Rollo: And delivering value to consumers in a way that is consistent with the way we deliver value to consumers and to homeowners. And again, there's going to be the particular target that I'm after. I happen to know there are 18,000 agents in the United States and I happen to know that a small subset of those are going to have the same mindset that we have. And they're going to have. They're going to want to collaborate with us and they're going to want to collaborate with the residential real estate market in their area and adopt the systems that we have in place and the approach to consumers that we have in place. So that's a long answer to your question, but the answer is yes, that's where we're going next.

Stuart: And I think that syndication element that taking the framework that you've proved and tested within your own business and then can evidence it to other people along with providing the framework and additional assets and everything that they need to almost franchise the marketing system.

Jim Rollo: Because that's exactly right. That's exactly right.

Stuart: Such a great opportunity because you've got the evidence within your own organization. The 11 years of experience that you've got of testing these campaigns and the approaches. So it's almost becomes having the evidence to back that up and the supporting materials and all of the assets in place that can be shared with others, with the regional boundaries providing a very obvious constraints so that they aren't competing with each other. It's a great framework in an audience that is more than big enough to support all of the business objectives that I'm sure you have. The complete audience being 18,000 people and only needing a subset of those guys to raise their hand as interested.

Jim Rollo: Well, they're facing. So the folks that are facing the same issues and recognize the issues that I mentioned earlier, that is, they're looking to decommoditize the commoditized, make the intangible tangible, make the forgotten remembered, make the invisible visible. They see that. They see that need. They're looking for a way to be different and provide unique value in the marketplace. And we have a way to help them do that. That's where the, the courtship and the marriage can be mutually beneficial.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah. And I can imagine taking it to the next level of development once the first couple of you've got a great case study with your own business, but once the first couple of white label franchise type clients are on board, then cycling back through and looking at the improvements that you can get from there and being the quick start mentality of getting things up and running and tweaks and tests at the acceleration for the next, over the next couple of years of those groups going through the collaboration.

Jim Rollo: Multiply your learning. Right. You multiply your learning. Right. And accelerate your progress collectively. Because now I have the benefit of the experience and the engagement and involvement of many more people that can really enhance the process.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah. That collective experience just amplifies it in a much quicker way than you could do just by yourself. I wanted to jump back to the book itself then and how that sits in the funnel, kind of engaging with the customers. We talked about the way that customers would get a copy in the first place, primarily through the collaborative relationships and the referrals to it and being given it as part of the overall home buying process. The content of the book is really focused around the seven secrets of your framework. So it begins the conversation across those seven elements. We talked briefly about the scorecard and the fact that it ties in with a broader scorecard that you have. So the funnel for customers as they come on board is the school card, the next step. Kind of thinking about that multiple minimum viable Commitment steps down a campaign.

Jim Rollo: Yes. Well, right it is. So let me just say that one of the ways that with our collaborative relationships, one of the ways that. Or the primary way that they will be able to provide. Let's take the example of a real estate agent. We will create a landing page for the real estate agent that is personalized with the real estate agent's photo and logo. And the real estate agent will give that link to their customer as a. For a complimentary copy of the book.

Stuart: Yeah.

Jim Rollo: So when they go to that link they'll have the option of do they want a hard copy of the book, which we're happy to mail to them as a gift from the real estate agent, or do they want a PDF copy of the book which we'll send to them by email?

Stuart: Yeah.

Jim Rollo: And then the next step in the process will be that the person who received a copy of the book will next be invited to do a self assessment on the Happy Homeowner scorecard. So then they'll be able to look at where am I on the eight mindsets, the seven simple secrets, plus a bonus secret, the eighth simple secret, which is a bonus secret in the book that will help them say where am I compared to the ideal? Where are my gaps? And then let's talk about how we can close those gaps to get you closer to the ideal when it comes to the simple secrets.

Stuart: Fantastic. That correlation or that tie in from the kind of the preceded framework in the book itself because you've already. The book almost becomes the manifesto, if you like, for the framework. It kind of sets the. Introduces the ideas and sets the scene in a kind of narrative sense explaining it to have that then backed up with the scorecard where people are evidencing for themselves, where they need assistance rather, or if they need assistance. I think that creates a very strong funnel and through story from here's. You've been referred to this because something happened in a conversation that sparked the idea that you might want a copy of it. You get a copy of it and in a very accessible, customer friendly way, it kind of sets out the. The framework and explains why individual things are important and then goes on to say, okay, now that we've said these things for you on this scale and at the end of that there's the suggestion of what to do next. At no point in there are you telling people what they should do or pointing out that people are silly for not having done things. It's very friendly and positive and moving in a joined up direction towards an ultimate outcome which is, is to do business with you guys. That whole. We've talked a lot about this in the show and as we're talking to people individually, trying to get people to think about that funnel, that campaign, the book is one piece that kind of sits in this overall journey. I think what you've achieved with it is, is kind of almost the perfect example of that because it's such, it's so thematically joined together, it's so on the, on the same path. It's is a great example of how to use a book to start that conversation.

Jim Rollo: Well, we come at, we come so a couple things on that. We come at life from the perspective that people are smart, not the opposite. We come at life from the perspective that if people are smart, which we believe they are, and we provide information to them like we do in the book and like we do in the scorecard, like you said, we're not going to say, boy, you're silly for not having done the following. Then because they're smart and they're going to make good decisions, if they have good information available to them to make good decisions, then the natural outcome of this process will be that we've given them information they may not have had in the past. And because they have that information, they're now going to make decisions. So we're not going to tell them what to do. We certainly do recommend certain things, but at the end of the day, people make decisions that are in their own best interest, they believe to be in their best interest and we just want to equip them to make better decisions. And so the outcome of all this is that by the time people go through this process, they will be there, they will have four attributes. The people that we work with will have four attributes. They're pre interested, they're pre qualified, they're pre motivated and they're predisposed to do business with us.

Stuart: Right. That's such a great point to raise as well. Because all of the steps that we've talked about so far, depending on how much automation you want to build into the process or systems you want to put in place, obviously it can be relatively manual. But everything up to the point that they come out of the scorecard is a relatively hands off process. You don't necessarily need to individually email people with each step in the process. They can be guided through in a very personal way, but still in a scalable, automated way so that just as you said, they pop out of that process with those four attributes already in place. And at that point you're then dealing with a much warmer educated potential customer than just someone off the street.

Jim Rollo: Yes, absolutely.

Stuart: I was thinking about with. And again, it depends on whether it's worthwhile or not. But one of the things to consider, given the nature of the print on demand of the books, if you do have a couple of agents that either immediately or over time identify themselves as very dialed into the program that you've got, are kind of your closest collaborators, there's always the opportunity to tweak the book slightly to include a forward from that particular agent or you could co brand it in some way with that particular agent or organization. We quite often talk to people about kind of separating themselves from the ownership element of the book. There's, I think the nature of the industry to a certain degree. There's of the publishing industry, not the insurance industry. But there's an element of oh, I want this, I wrote this rather I want to own it and I want to have my face all over it. But if that doesn't serve the greater purpose, then separating yourself from that, that very personal connection and allowing other people to, to include themselves on it because that.

Jim Rollo: Well, we actually. That's a good point. I'm glad you brought that up. We actually have already we have real estate agents who are interested in having, as you called it, a forward. One of the first pages inside the book would be their photograph, their contact information and a generic letter to their customer expressing their sentiments and their gratitude for the customer working with them and the fact that they care about them beyond the closing table. They care about them for a lifetime and that this book is an expression of that caring for them. And so they're very. We have real estate agents who are very much on board with that idea and want to do that.

Stuart: So the value that it adds all down the chain, it adds value to the customer because they're not just being handed something that is valuable information, but they might not necessarily realize the value of it. They're being given a warm introduction to something that's actually going to help them. For the realtor, the, the collaboration partner, it adds value to their overall chain because it allows them to deliver something more after the initial sale, that kind of after, after the lifetime value of the. Their relationship is built more. It adds to, it's beneficial to you in the sense that it's an even warmer introduction, more relevant introduction made by the person, the realtor that's got the relationship with the end customer and the opportunity to reinforce why it's important and why they chose to work with you and what elements of it particularly that the end customer should pick up on. It adds value all down the chain. And this is something we talk about a lot, is don't necessarily think about writing something and just throwing more ad money or looking for a new channel to customers, or think about how you can add a lot more value to the existing things that are there. Because pulling the leave on that a little bit stronger, but 10% is going to be far more beneficial than trying to put something completely new in place.

Jim Rollo: Right. Well, I had a. I had. To your point. I had a real estate agent say, well, this would make a great closing gift. And I said, no, it wouldn't. Because if they haven't spoken to me or they don't know about me until after the closing, then we have a problem.

Stuart: Yeah, a little bit far down there. It's too late.

Jim Rollo: And they've made decisions that will impact their home ownership experience without the knowledge of the content of the book. We want them to have the knowledge of the content of the book before they make those decisions, not after.

Stuart: Yeah, I mean, as we're talking the opportunity that. And again, it was all kind of. It's a balance of how much effort is worth the benefit that you can provide or the results that you might get. But there's definitely a scenario, I think, where adding a whole educational suite of material, which hopefully is some of the things that you have existing already. So we're not trying to reinvent the wheel here. It's just tweaking slightly some of the assets you've already had for the context that they're going to be used, but adding audio into that funnel, adding video into that funnel, co branding some of the printed material, the design material that you've probably already got, just changing the language very slightly, but in a way that customizes it for either that particular Realtor or if it's a realtor versus a closing lawyer that you're working with or someone in a different industry being able to dial all of that in and pile on the value at the most appropriate time. But just by tweaking some of the assets that you've already got. Very few people are doing this because very few people think about that collected view. I think it's much more execution and try something and. And then take an action from that and then do something else and, and test it's the. It's testing lots of different things and see what sticks, rather than going deep on one particular thing and seeing where the value can be added all down a chain that already exists.

Jim Rollo: Well, one of the things that I personally enjoy in life and the thing that keeps me excited and motivated and waking up every day is what I call reshaping the game. Changing the game, changing the playing field in a way that is totally transformative.

Stuart: Right.

Jim Rollo: And so what the book is a piece of that whole strategy to transform the playing field and transform the business in a way that is totally different and unique. And as you said, nobody else is doing it. Everybody's trying to play the commodity, the commodity game. We're not talking about price, because that's really of secondary importance. One of the chapters in the book is happy homeowners keep costs down. We talk to them about ways to keep costs down. That's one of the secrets in the book, but that's really not the focus. And people. There are many people, I can tell you, who work with us, who walk away from their experience with us, and they're paying more gladly because now they're covered in a way that they were never even told about before. And they walk away saying, why didn't anybody tell me about this? And so that's really.

Stuart: And that line of, why didn't anyone tell me about this before? I read that as I was going through the book prior to the call. That line, just as you were saying about working with the realtor, having a conversation is great, but if that conversation comes far too late, then thanks. But this would have been useful months ago or years ago, being able to have that, take the time to have that conversation. And it's not about price. It's not about trying to dive in at the bottom. It's about educating people to understand what outcome they really want. That kind of value.

Jim Rollo: Well, if. Let's just take the. Let's just take the case. Let's just say, Stuart, that you were one of our customers. And whether you're coming in as a new customer or you're an existing customer, and you and I are having a conversation, one of the things that we say over and over to customers, and I would say to you is I would say, look, Stuart, we're going to talk about all of your risks and all of the storms of life that could come up, and you're going to do something about them or you're not going to do something about them. But here's one thing I know. I never want you, Stuart, to walk in here and sit in front of me and ask me this question. Jim, why didn't you tell me about that?

Stuart: Right. Yeah. I think having that. If you Decide not to do something about it, that's one thing. But just not having the conversation, not knowing that it's even a decision that you'd either make or ignore. Two very different things. And I think the whole setup of the book, which we talk about quite a lot, again, it's in the book blueprint scorecard when we do talk about the content section. But it's very much about value driven content. It's about, even if people never did anything else with you, that having read the book, they would have got some value from it. It would have answered a question. And that, I think is the key to the content that starts the conversation, that then leads on to. Leads on to other things further down the track.

Jim Rollo: Yes. Yeah, that's the goal.

Stuart: Yeah. Time always goes quick. I can't believe that we're gone 45 minutes already.

Jim Rollo: Yeah.

Stuart: It'd be great to catch up with you again in the, in the future and then just kind of cycle back for people, circle back for people and talk about how the experience has been. Obviously the book's only just been completed now, so be good to circle back.

Jim Rollo: Sure.

Stuart: One of the things that. Fantastic. One of the things that I quickly want to touch on before we finish then I think the main, the main thing that I really wanted to get out of this call we've achieved, which is getting people to think about that overall funnel approach and how a book fits into a broader picture. And your example, I think is absolutely perfect. One of the things just on the process, you talked about thinking about starting to write in 2016, but there was the. That never got the traction just in terms of completing the process. Our process obviously is not rocket science, but it is a slightly different approach than other people. What was the highlight or the lowlight of going through the process? Was there anything that was a surprise that turned out well or was frustrating and advice to others to be aware of?

Jim Rollo: I would say the COVID design was amazing. The. The step in the process where we put the outline in place and the chapters in place and put the title in place, those first two steps were the best.

Stuart: Fantastic.

Jim Rollo: Then the phone interview was great. In hindsight, I, when I received the 10 copies, 10 review copies and the. What you call the digital asset, which is the draft for me to review. In hindsight, I wish I had held on to the 10 review copies and just reviewed the digital asset file and made my edits to that, which is really what ended up happening. I gave the review copies to people and the way I speak in my particular case and the way I write are quite different. And so I took my spoken words from the interview, the recorded interview which you all had transcribed and then I rewrote them into the way I write versus the way I speak and communicating the same message of course. But so I would have just held onto the 10 review copies and said okay, I'm going to go through the edits and now let me here, you know, here's my final, final, final.

Stuart: Yeah. It's always interesting. We hear from some people when they hear that something will be printed, created, it's almost a point of they're almost surprised isn't the right word. But there's a. There's a fear that once it's on the page, that's it, it's set in stone. And I think that comes from the traditional printing world where it's. It is difficult and expensive to make changes after something's been created. The benefit that you have here is that it's very flexible and I certainly wouldn't suggest this, but you could make changes to it every month and it's pretty cost effective to do. Definitely wouldn't recommend that to anyone.

Jim Rollo: Right.

Stuart: But we used to, back in the early days when we first started, we used to call those first version galley copies and they wouldn't have the final cover on and they looked very different. But then that had the, the effect on the other side of them being slightly underwhelming rather when they arrived and trying to strike that middle ground of here's something. But it's always great to hear back from people on what the challenges were because that gives us the opportunity to tweak the language that we use when we're talking to people and the expectations that we set. But I think your point of it was a straightforward process to make the changes and we're just going through a version update now. That's something that I was point out to people as well or not let people get hung up on the fact or prevent them from doing it. Whether they do it with us or do it themselves is always think about this as a live document. And making the first set of changes when you see the first version come back is great because that's your first iteration. But also think about it kind of like a 6 months or a 12 month cycle. You're going to get feedback from people that. Who raise issues that you might not have thought about before or something that seems perfectly clear because you've been doing this for 11 years and this particular. One of the secrets is very obvious. But perhaps it's not as understood externally. Think of it as a living document and certainly we get people that make annual updates or even I don't think we've got anyone that's on a regular six month cycle, but we've definitely got annual updates and it's a very live document going forward. So. So there's a lot of opportunity to tweak and make further improvements down the track.

Jim Rollo: Yep. Like you said, it's better to get it out there and, you know, if we wait until we achieve perfection. Like I like to use the analogy of, well, I speak several languages. Right. So I speak Spanish and Portuguese and so learning Spanish and Portuguese required that I make a lot of mistakes, say things that turned out to be offensive and horrible and everything else. But I use the analogy of it's like saying, well, once I learn how to swim, then I'll get in the water. Well. Right.

Stuart: Yeah, exactly. I think the language analogy is funny. My wife speaks Spanish better than much better than I do. I mean, neither of us are fluent in any way, but when we're on vacation, she's not so enthused about the idea of trying to speak a foreign language, even though she's way more talented than I am. Whereas quite happy to kind of remember one or two words and then trying to plug the gaps with gestures and pointing.

Jim Rollo: Right. Yeah. I could tell some stories about some hilarious things that I said to people that you laugh about them now, but you know, at the time, no idea what I was saying that was or

Stuart: why there was such a shocked response.

Jim Rollo: Right, exactly. Exactly. Right. Yeah.

Stuart: Fantastic.

Jim Rollo: Okay.

Stuart: Okay. Well, thanks again for your time, Jim. Before we go, I just wanted to definitely make sure that people have got an opportunity to check in with you. So if anyone, well, I guess if anyone is a insurance broker from out of state and wanted to kind of early get reach out to you guys as and when a program comes available. What's the best way to contact you

Jim Rollo: or my email is the best way, Jim.

Stuart: Fantastic. Well, I'll make sure that we include this in the show notes. So show notes, as always, head over to 90minutebooks.com forward/podcast and then this is. We'll have all of the show notes on there. Make sure that we've got the contact details up as well. Again, I just wanted to say thanks for the time, Jim. It's been a great call. I'm really looking forward to checking back in with you in a couple of months and see how it's been going. In the meantime time we talked about the white label the syndication option, all the dialing in for the individual realtors that you're working with. So you've got my contact details. We'll search offline as well, but that's definitely an opportunity. And then we can share those stories with people in a future show.

Jim Rollo: Great. Thank you, Stuart, for the invite. It was great to be with you.

Stuart: It's really great. Enjoyed this, Jim, and we'll speak soon. Thanks everyone, for listening. All the best. Catch you next one. Thanks, bye.