Personal stories

Stuart: Foreign. Welcome to another episode of the Bookmore Show. Stuart here with Betsy, Betsy Vaughan. How's it going?

Guest: Super great, wonderful.

Stuart: How are you? Good, thank you. Super great and wonderful. That's a good end to the week, right?

Guest: I couldn't remember what day it was actually because I would have said like happy. And then all of a sudden I stopped and went. I don't even know what day it is.

Stuart: So yeah, I must have. I flew down yesterday and this is just a short trip. I need to come down for a meeting last night and today so I can go back again in the morning and then back down next week. So I'm completely discombobulated on the, on the day.

Guest: Yeah, I get it, I get it. What are we going to talk about today?

Stuart: So today we are going to dive in and look at a slightly different type of book than the ones we usually talk about. So I grabbed a book that I've been meaning to read for a couple of weeks and I'm actually taking it back and forth home for the last couple of trips. So kind of over breakfast this morning I grabbed it and thought I'm definitely going to read this now because I knew that I wanted to. But it actually turned out to be something completely different than I was expecting. So the I was expecting some lead generation type book, which is what we often talk about. But what it turned out to be was more of a cultural book about the organization we've had over the years. We've had several of these, I mean, the ones that spring to mind, we've probably mentioned them a couple of times on the show before. So Robin Estevet has got Stories from Behind the Counter, a book about their organization going from a small bodega that their parents owned through to I think they've got six or seven Food Town stores now up in New York. So stories about the culture there. There's Kevin Craig who we've definitely mentioned before because of the unexpected success and kind of spin off coaching career that he's really amplified based on his book. And his book was more about his background and some of the starting questions that he was able to answer in his business and that people then subsequently asked him over and over again. And then this book, Culture Shock is more for employees of the organization. So coming in and talking about how to thrive in the organization, what the corporate values are or the culture of the organization is why they're a little bit different. So as I was looking at it, it seemed like a good time to jump on and run through that type because Well, I should ask you, when you're talking to people, how often does that, does that, do people come with that type of idea?

Guest: You know, it's interesting because had you not said, oh, let's talk about this, the minute we started talking about it or thinking about talking about it, some popped in my mind. People doing that internal kind of an employee handbook, but more of a guide, you know, like, here's the new employee kind of thing. And this is sort of like you said about our culture. This is what we do, this is how we do things, this is how we expect it. We did another one and I'm kind of going through the gallery right now to hopefully trigger something in my mind to remember. But it was one of our financial guys and it was sort of like, hey, you're new to our. Not just, you know, our company, but new to the entire industry. And so these are some expectations because I was you once and this is what you need to know, you know, So, I mean, how awesome is that?

Stuart: Well, I wish someone would have told me. Yeah, you can imagine being the person on the receiving end of it as well. I mean, it's something that encapsulates all of the things that are important enough for the, for the business owner to write down. Even not just getting the kind of the view on the culture, but getting it straight from the horse's mouth. Out of all of the cultural elements, what are the important ones I felt the need to actually get down on in writing here and give to you. It's really a kind of an X ray into the, into the owner's mind.

Guest: And it is, you know, where it's different. Excuse me, where it's different from like the employee handbook or the company handbook or guide or what have you, is I remember in one of these books, and maybe even with this other one that I'm looking for, they were very true stories. Like this is what happened to me. And that's far more interesting to read, you know, than that. Typical. Here you've got to read this 60 page manual on the company, you know, I mean, that's. Obviously those have their benefits as well, but you know, it's kind of like, I mean, real life stories.

Stuart: And when I think about the books I read, I don't. These days I don't read books.

Guest: You get to read books.

Stuart: Well, just gonna say, these days I don't read that many. I used to have an Audible subscription, so I'd listen to them a lot more. But kind of podcasts, kind of supplanted audiobooks but even then when I think back to the books I'll typically gravitate towards it's more biographies and real life stories for exactly the point. You said it's more engaging. One of the other ones, what was the uk the not campsite but. And like a mobile park across there has a different meaning than a mobile home park across here. But there was one from the UK that was very much cultural based in the story about how the organization came up. There was. Chris Hill wrote one with an organization that they worked with pretty closely talking about their story.

Guest: Okay, that's really a great book. I mean that I enjoyed. That was one of the first books that I didn't work on it, but I read it when I first came on board and I just. That that's a good, that's a feel good book too. You know, people looking for something, you know, from a culture standpoint and you know, and how he does things and yeah, I enjoy that.

Stuart: That book was interesting because Chris is a. His company is the organizations that sets up all of the voluntourism of the volunteer based rewards program. So rather than taking the team to Vegas to lose money at the tables, they'll go away and build a school or do a community central volunteer type project. So Chris actually owns that company. But the guys that they worked with to create the book was one of their clients and the reason that they wanted to write it was because their story, the client's story really encapsulated the value that the organization got from going on volunteer based reward trips rather than just vacation type reward trips. So that's an interesting one for as you listen to this to think about. It's not even like we said with the Legion books, it doesn't necessarily have to be your specific story or your specific idea or your specific position that you're putting out there, but you're encapsulating the details or the ideas. You're bringing them together into one place that can help someone move their journey forward. The same with this, the story that's being told. If you have a feel for wanting to share a story that is more emotionally compelling or has more of a cultural component, it doesn't necessarily have to be entirely your own thing. The point can be made with someone else's stories and if there's an opportunity to team up or joint venture or, or amplify someone else's story through a project that you want to initiate yourself, that's a fantastic way of capturing those details. I think about some of the popular kind of Entrepreneurial type books and Conversations with Millionaires is a huge book that was around in the, I want to say maybe late 80s, early 90s, maybe time. I became confused on the time. But that book was entirely written based on conversations with other people. So leveraging someone else's, the stories and examples that someone else have, but bringing them together into a framework, into a narrative that you want to orchestrate is another great way of. Just a very slight variation on this type of thing that we're talking about. I think we're spending so much time talking about lead generation books because that is a lot of the focus of what we do. But it's definitely the, the 60 to 70% is not. And the other, the other 30 to 40% is made up of all of these different types.

Guest: Yeah. And it's, I mean from our standpoint, it's a nice change. But also, I think sometimes people associate us just with those lead generation books and we've, you know, we know that we've done so many more other things, these kind of books, the culture books and legacy books and stuff. But it's, these are kind of a nice change up for us. You know, for me, the person who reads all the books, the office, it's kind of, kind of a nice change, you know, so.

Stuart: And a little bit more engaging than talking about just financial.

Guest: Yeah, right. Well, we're grateful for our financial books, but.

Stuart: Right. It's nice to get some fries.

Guest: Bread and butter. Yes, exactly. Yeah.

Stuart: Or include a few more anecdotes. Not just facts. Maybe Nice blending the two.

Guest: You know what that is like. Okay, let's Even, even in the lead generation books, like talking, like making it. I'm kind of going off somewhere else. We may talk about this another time. But you know, we always say, and I say in content when they're talking to people, like, if you can use not just an example, but like a story, like a real life story in the book, like that it just, it makes, it makes you want to continue reading. You know, like if you're learning, you're hearing about someone's real stories, things that happen to them. Yes. From an employee standpoint, I think so beneficial. But I think people also just, they're easier to read when you have some stuff that are just a little more.

Stuart: And we talk all the time about the whole purpose of books in a funnel. Whatever that funnel is, is being part of the process to get people to know like, and trust you to the point that they want to take the next step with you. Whether that's Becoming an employee or becoming an engaged employee or being a customer or client. Having something that bridges that gap makes you, brings out your human side, gets people to be create more of a connection. Think about some of the complete change of subject or channel. But think about some of the popular YouTube channels that are out there. A lot of those are the vlog type channels where the majority of the compelling content is the fact that people know and understand the person that's on the other end of the camera. I mean, obviously easier to do that in, in video because it's very kind of visceral in your face. But even when you think about podcasts, I mentioned that I some time ago kind of stopped listening to audiobooks just because podcasts had taken them over. The majority of podcasts that I listen to are either technology ones or political ones or fitness ones. And across all of those three genres, it's almost less about the subject and more about the individuals. And the fact that you've got a connection with who on the show, you

Guest: know, that is so. I mean like I was, I was. You're saying you're listening to like grown up podcast and I love that. And I'm listening to like Fluffy feel Good, you know, nonsense. Because when I need to zone out, that's what I do. I listen to nonsense podcasts. But I feel like there is that connection, you know, and yes, there's always something of benefit in there, you know, I walk away with something. But it is true. It's almost like, oh, I'm gonna listen to my friend, you know, today like you do you have that, you know, because there's gonna be some fun story that they're gonna tell and you know, and yes, hope we all learn something from it. But yeah, so I, I've taken on a lot of podcasts. I have a whole list of. And there are some grown up things in there that I should listen to, you know, but sometimes you just need to like to veg out and zone

Stuart: out and yeah, I mean, I think the subject of the ones I listen to might sound more growing up. I don't know that the content is. And I zone out just as, just as well with those, that anecdote and the personal connection thing. Let's drill into that a little bit more then because that is a good point. I didn't necessarily think about as we, as we were talking about what to talk about on the show I was running through on the flight on the way down yesterday, I was running through an outline for another 90 minute book that we're going to be releasing shortly. It's industry specific and one of the examples. So the book is based on the. The book blueprint framework that the eight mind steps to create the best opportunity in a book format and the content side of things, the value driven content mindset stage talks about making sure that you answer the one question the book is about as completely as possible. Don't hold anything back and really make a connection. And that making the connection. One of the bullet points that I've got to, that I'd included to drill a little bit deeper on is this anecdote and example element. So having personal connections, personal stories, having things that illustrate the example in a, in a real world way is beneficial for two reasons. One, it creates that connection. But two, and the frame in which I was talking about it mainly was the limiting the scope. So it's always a problem or always a challenge in a book to write something that is specific enough to be useful without overly caveating it or trying to come up with a watertight example that illustrates absolutely every point that you're trying to make. Because otherwise you're going to end up with 100 pages just trying to highlight one particular point buried in a chapter somewhere. But stories and anecdotes are a great way of illustrating it without needing to get 100% of the way there. Because if you're telling a story, particularly if it's a real story and not just an illustration, when you're telling a story, people don't expect that it's going to be the perfect analogy because you're retelling what actually happened. And obviously it's not going to be perfectly matched to a point that you're trying to make. So it gives you an amount of flexibility and leeway to make a point and reinforce it, but without worrying about being 100% true to the point or accurate to the point you're trying to make. Because everyone understands that this is a story and illustration, not, not the thing completely watertight and with every element covered. So I think including real life stories really has that, that, that benefit in addition to making that personal connection.

Guest: Absolutely, I agree with that. I think what you said about, you know, being actual, you know, because sometimes we're so concerned with everything being perfect and said just right and maybe factual, you know, as everything been said, all the T's crossed, the I's dotted right story, you know, it is, it sort of breaks down that formal thing, I guess, you know, that formality and people can kind of just. They kind of get into it and they, you know, they don't have to worry about it. It's their story. They're relaying it just as it, as it happened, you know, we're close to it. And I think it's definitely beneficial to the, to the books, you know, and to the reader as well.

Stuart: A few of the podcasts that I listen to, one in particular, a lot of the. So three guys talking about tech subjects, all of them, to a certain degree, write for tech publications, either magazines or websites. And there's something that they've all said at various different times, is that the podcast medium, the fact that it's a conversation, does give them that flexibility that no one expects it to be. The expectations are different. No one expects it to be absolutely researched. And you going away and collecting all the details and then coming back and giving a factual account of something that's been double checked five times. If you can double check something five times anyway. So it gives an animated flexibility. And even though there is an expectation that the written word on a page in a book is more accurate, I think retelling a story within that changes people's context of how they're reading it. So just as you said, it's easier and a little less formal because people have those different expectations.

Guest: Absolutely. Yeah.

Stuart: We've jumped back into Legion type books. Let's go back to the culture type books. The setup then the reason, the job of work for doing them. Want to explore that a little bit more. Because if it's something that, as you're listening to, it's resonating, you've kind of got an idea that you might want to share your story a little bit more. But thinking about how it fits into the bigger picture, there are a couple of ways that it really are beneficial. Not just for the sake of creating it, for the sake of it being created, but actually lead towards a specific outcome. So the first thing is the. Or the first way is kind of like with some of the examples we used before, it's a great way of onboarding people and giving them the insights into the things that are really important. That not the nuts and bolts of how to do something or the employee handbook to tick the contractual boxes, but it's the softer side of the organization where it sets up. The other element that always. Or the other job of work that always springs to mind is with customers as well. So in a real world example, I can think of quite a few organizations, although interestingly, they're often restaurants, that have created books like this, which often then turn into Recipe books or there's a recipe element of it as well. But it's a lot about the founder's story. So there's a couple of organizations, a couple of restaurant chains in the uk. There's Wagamamas and Kaluchos are the two that spring to mind. By the way, if you're ever in London and you want some great kind of Asian type food, go to Wagamammets because it's really good. I think there's one in New York. Just a side tip, actually there's another one as well which is more of a street food type place called Oaxaca. If you ever go to London or next time you visit London on the south bank by the Royal Festival hall, there's a lot of restaurants down there and Oaxaca and Wagamamas are both down there. So both of those places have printed books that it's really good. I think we're recording this. It's 12:23 when we're recording. So maybe the trip tip going forward is not to record at lunchtime because my mind is. My stomach's overriding my mind. Yeah. So back on track. So both of those organizations, all three of those organizations have written something which is founder based stories leading into other. Leading into recipe type books and that type of thing. But the ability to share something with a large larger customer base, particularly if your organization has, I don't say any kind of customer base, but if there's definitely. I don't really want to tie it to brand either or brand loyalty or that type of thing because it's. It's slightly different than that. It's more, it's more kind of like brand family for want of a better term. If you've got any resident. If it's not, if it's. If you're engagement with the customers is less transactional and more relationship building, then this is a great opportunity to amplify that a little bit more. And as far as the job of work goes, then there's not only the amplification of the individual that's reading it of the customer you're trying to build a relationship with, but there's the opportunity to use that as a referral and recommendation type tool by sowing the seeds in the book or in the context in which you deliver the book to the person that this is something that should be shared someone else or we're bringing together a lot of customer stories that have come from referrals and testimonials and things that other people have been saying to kind of precede the expectation. Precede the expectation. Sorry, that this is something that they could do as well. So the job of work, of thinking about that book is in a funnel which is more on the referrals based side of things, is another great way to leverage and amplify and get that message out there, not only about what the culture of the organization is, but what the culture of our customer base is. Our customers typically refer, they typically write testimonials, they typically want to talk about our organization because we're building this family. And here's lots of stories about why that that reinforces it. Now that's obviously not something that you make up. It's very difficult to create something that's completely false that really backs up that message. But if your organization does have that, even if it's a small level, but if that kind of customer family based sentiment resonates, then bringing it together into the pages of the book is a great way of capturing that in one place. And then you can do things like there's that physical gift giving type approach of a book is a thing, an artifact that you give to someone and it has more resonance than a digital file or an email or just saying thank you to someone. Writing a personalized note in the front cover of a book that talks about how important customers are. I mean the amplification effect there is just huge, of course, reinforces the, the relationship element.

Guest: Very true. Yeah.

Stuart: The ones that we got, the ones that we've got and we've done so far. So the couple of examples that spring to mind, Robin's talking about their story and how the stores came to be in place. The culture shock book that we were talking about before, very much aimed at staff. And this is why our organization is different. There was one that we were looking at just before we started the show that's just about to be completed, which is the. What was it called? The California Cannabis Business.

Guest: The Cannabis Business Owner's Guide to Employees. Yeah, about the cannabis industry in California. But that's more, and that's more like that's for people and anybody who's wanting to start up in the cannabis industry, you know, so it's, it's not just going to be for one organization. I think it's fantastic, you know, because it's a new, relatively new industry and, and he's anybody who's looking at, you know, getting into that industry. This is a great, great guy. I've kind of read through it a little bit and it's really a great guide, you know, to how to get to, you know, from point A to point B in the industry. It's very, it's industry specific, first of all, because it's just specifically about California and an employee guide, you know, to starting up that business. But I think it's, it's so needed. It's going to eventually, I think we'll see it in other states, you know, him doing something similar with it. Yeah.

Stuart: And that one. So Jonathan writing that is because that's their business, they help those types of organizations. But you can imagine from the business owner's point of view, so they're getting into the business, the nature of that business because of the, the baggage that comes along with it, and not only the fact that it's new and the regulations are changing and it's quite a fast moving field, but also the kind of social baggage and employee stereotypes that might go along with the people who work in that industry. You can imagine a business owner there writing a book that is the guide to working at my organization, at this organization. So not generic, but very specific and talking about cultural elements like we work in this industry, but don't expect you to be stoned on the job. Don't expect you to be having a side business on your own, taking the steps necessary to reinforce that professional element of it, which for any other industry might be less of an issue because it doesn't come with that baggage, it doesn't come with the stereotypes around it. But writing a, a book which isn't so much of an employee guide as in here are the terms and conditions, but it's the employee guide to the softer side of it, the cultural side of it, the things that are important that aren't necessarily written on a piece of paper that is an example of this type of book that immediately leaps out because it is something different. It's something relatively new. It's maybe something where the softer side of things, the less specific side of things do need to be overcome because of the baggage that's around it. So that would be a fantastic opportunity to kind of merge these ideas together and think about the job of work of the book is to dial in these specific things. And the books that we're talking about exactly the same with the Legion ones. I mean, this isn't. We're not talking about trying to get on a New York Times bestseller list. We're not talking about investing 30 grand into a project that takes eight months to complete. We're talking about executing something for a couple of grand that takes tops, a couple of months. To get done and the return on investment, I mean, the headache of finding staff and employing and the cost associated with that, you can burn tens of thousands very quickly just by churning three or four staff. So even if this book was something that was written for five people, the reality is the fact that it is printed in pages, it is a book. It gives it more credibility and standing than just giving them a PDF or expects them to read a document on the web about something. So the importance of it is reinforced the fact that the business owner has given them something that has been written. It's a published book that's bound and has a barcode on the back of it. It looks more important, so carries more weight. It sets the expectation that the organization's more professional because they're going the extra step to do these things that other organizations wouldn't do, either because they didn't want to do, or they just. They didn't listen to this podcast. They didn't know that they could do it. But when you think about the job of work is employee retention and good employee retention, then I mean, that's ticking a huge box and moving that goal forward in a significant way by creating something that from a purely numbers point of view, I mean, we wouldn't typically talk about writing a book that would just have an audience of five people. But this job of work, it means that it's. For some people, it will be a great way of achieving it. As I say that we don't typically talk about creating a book that's got an audience of five people, but that bridges into a slight other topic, which is the family legacy type books. So again, that's another kind of subgenre of ones that we've written several examples of. We don't talk about them very much because they're not promotable ones, they're not ones that we share. But the type of book is where someone who is the head of the family, for want of a better term, wants to communicate their story because they want to make sure that the generations to come understand where the family has come from. Typically that's from a financial legacy perspective. That's usually where the. The conversation comes from. So where the wealth of the family is generated at one in one generation, but then being passed down to another. And they want to share that message to kind of reinforce, hey, we weren't born with this. It came from hard work.

Guest: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, they're benefiting from our hard work too.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And then using it as a start to a conversation because oftentimes it's difficult for families to talk about that type of thing. But using the book as, as the jumping off point for conversation and really that's the job of work. The job of work is getting to the point where they can have a conversation about things, to kind of set the zone or make arrangements or have agreements before. Well, I mean, really before someone dies.

Guest: Yeah, but having, I mean, interesting. It does take something like, it's a soft way to approach it too. Like, hey, this is what I've done. This is this book. And this is, this is sort of why I've done it, because granddad's not going to be here forever, you know, and then it kind of opens the door to other things. And that actually happened. Like one of our books, I remember, like, and I won't name names, but he said, oh, we've, you know, we've had more conversations. And he, this is somebody who had. Had an illness. And he said it's really open to whole conversation and, you know, just about what's next, you know. But what I love about it and because the people that have done these books, obviously they have a history. They've, you know, had businesses for, you know, significant amount of time and they're older people, you know, they're a different generation. And there's this. I have this fear that, you know, these, these kids coming up now and I'm now going to start sounding old. Everything they have is saved, you know, on social media, like that's how they do. There's not a photo book, you know, I mean, and even me and my kids are in their early 20s. Like when I stopped putting photos and, you know, going and printing them out and putting them, like there's not even that kind of stuff, you know, so everything. I mean, if they could go back in 20, 30 years and go through all my social media, they'd be able to pinpoint, like, what I had done, I guess, you know, okay, well, she traveled and she ate this restaurant and she, you know, whatever. But there's not that solid.

Stuart: There's a seemed lack of permanence about it, isn't it?

Guest: Absolutely. Yeah.

Stuart: Well, There was a MySpace talking about tech podcast, listening to. There was one of the news stories from last week. MySpace admitted that they'd lost all files from something like these details aren't going to be correct, but something like 98 through to 2004, they were migrating some servers and the data was just gone. So for a couple, couple of months they were saying there's a problem we're restoring. Bear with us. But they finally made last week that information's gone completely. So the example they were given there is. Back in the heydays of MySpace, there were a number of bands where the only place where some of their music will exist is on something that has now disappeared because of a technical glitch. So a bit of a side there, but take the point exactly that there isn't the same level of documentation of things as perhaps it was in the past. So this is a great opportunity to take the time just to make sure that some words and your words. It's not that this is. Yes. This isn't an archivist going back through and trying to piece together the various pieces of what might have happened in Betsy's life. This is your words actually documenting at least your view of what did happen,

Guest: you know, and it's history. But, like, the sappy side of me is like, what a gift that you're giving to your grandchildren or your great grandchildren that you've never met. You know, they can. Can go through that and they have such a gift to know, you know, where their grandfather, great grandfather started and how it all began and, you know, reading about, you know, his life and how he created, you know, what he did create or what have you. That's the sappy side of me that loves things like that, you know, so it is. It's historical and there's a purpose to it. But, yeah, it's also a great thing to do for your family.

Stuart: Yeah, you can imagine. So, again, we're coming back to kind of what the. On a couple of examples, what the job of work is. Why would you want to do this? But, I mean, a perfectly valid job of work is just, I want to capture these details. It doesn't have to do anything else. It's just this is an opportunity to, at a point in time, answer these questions and have it documented in a way that the person whose stories they are can confirm that that's an accurate representation and get it kind of printed on a page for the rest of the family to see going forwards. Even then, I think there's the opportunity to. Going back to Chris's example, and they orchestrated the book, but it was someone else's story that they were Illustra. Same applies to this. I'm pretty sure we've had one or two examples like this where it's actually been the children or grandchildren that have wanted to capture the. Have the stories captured, but then the interview as part of the process has been done with the Older family member and the aim then. Well, actually, didn't we have. This is a little bit sad, but didn't we have a story recently where we were rushing to try and get this done? Actually, there's been two. It's funny, I mean, we're up at 500 or so books now. So it's always funny that the same hundred or so are kind of front and center in mind because all the time. But then when you start diving into a subject and start going deeper, all of the other ones that are below the surface that you forget about because they just pass through the system and they're kind of just one of the 500 that. It's not until you start talking about, but they come up. But we've got two examples and you were much closer to this than I was. But one of them was example where just I was describing then. I think it was the. The son was trying to get the story from the parent before the parents. They would. They were definitely getting older. I don't think there was anything particularly terminal, but they were definitely getting older. So. So that was one of the projects that was. We were able to do. But there was another one which is quite sad that the person's friend, they had a terminal illness, wanted him to do the book.

Guest: Yeah, they had both had the same terminal illness. And the friend really was doing. He's still doing his own book, but he wanted his sick friend to sort of do his perspective as well. Just not just it was a legacy book, but it was also like, hey, you've been diagnosed with xyz and how do you handle it? And this is how my family handled it. And yeah, unfortunately, you know, before we got to work with him, the gentleman passed away. And so now we're working on that book with the gentleman's wife and her two. They're two young. They're not young, but I mean, they're young to me because they're in their 20s, so they're sons. So we're working with them on that to sort of, you know, try to create sort of the memoir for the boys and for their future children, you know. So. Yeah,

Stuart: yeah, it is. And because it's relatively recent as well, I mean, this is the last couple of months this is going on, and it's surprising how close you get to people even in just a couple of conversations. I mean, obviously nowhere near as close as the actual people involved, but even so, it's. I mean, that's the nice thing about working with a relatively small group of people is that there are. This isn't. We haven't got robots that are recording things to then just spin something out at the end. Every person in the process is, is connected with, with everyone at the. Everyone that's at the other end of the process.

Guest: Yeah, yeah.

Stuart: Definite personal connections they made. Yeah, sorry, that took a bit of a turn there. But it does highlight the point that there is. Time's fleeting, so the ability to capture stuff and capture it before the opportunity disappears is. It's a moment in time. And even if the job of work is just to have that memory captured, that's a perfectly valid job of work. We're talking all the time about, okay, what's the funnel and what's the return and what you do beyond the book and all the things from a transactional point of view and in a, in a financial funnel. But just as valid is the job of work of capturing that.

Guest: Yeah.

Stuart: Okay, so what? Yeah, I think that probably covers it in a pretty good. A good way. Capturing the different types. It's not just about Lead generation, although next week we're going to be back on that subject and we're going to be talking about it in detail again. The opportunity to get that story, to get that story down and the extra benefit that it has by adding that human element even to one of the Lead Generation books that we talk about. I'm glad that we talked about this today because it really is quite.

Guest: I think it's interesting, it's beneficial, I think that for people who have been following us for some time, we do always talk about the Lead generation books and there are other options out there, you know, so if you're thinking about doing something or you're thinking maybe we've planted a seed today, you know, like, oh, this would be great for my organization, you know, because they're definitely beneficial. I think if you remember to add those stories and add the real life examples, I think your employees will definitely benefit, you know, from, from that.

Stuart: So that's a good point. I mean, as we were saying, a couple of the other examples of the 500 plus that we've done now cropped up in conversation. But as you listen to this, if you've got an idea and it's not specifically something that we've talked about, then just reach out to us and it's almost certainly something that we've done with someone or something very close. Reach out, ask us some questions and we can see what we can bring together.

Guest: Definitely.

Stuart: Well, that was good. Yeah, enjoyed that. Thanks for your time again today. This is going to be episode 76 so not too much in the way of show notes today apart from the transcript. So if you do want to have a scroll through that or catch up on anything specific that we talked about then just head over to 90minutebooks.com podcast and as I say this is going to be episode 76 and the transcript will be there. If this did spring an idea and it was something specific and you want to get started, then as always just head over to the website and follow the get started links@90minutebooks.com and if you are thinking about something, as Betsy said, that's maybe slightly outside of what we talked about, it's probably very similar to things that we've done in the past. So just shoot us an email to supportightyminutebooks.com and we'll be able to jump on a call and talk through your idea.

Guest: Awesome.

Stuart: Okay, well thanks for time Betsy. Thanks for listening everyone and we will catch you in the next one.

Guest: Great. Thanks Stuart.

Stuart: Cheers. Bye.