Become a Superhero with Jonathon Schultheiss

"Foreign."

Stuart: Welcome back to another episode of the book More show. Super excited today for two reasons. One, it's the first video recording that we're going to do, so check out the show notes to see our lovely faces. And two, and more importantly, because I get a chance to speak to one of our great authors. Had a chance to speak to Jonathan before, but this is going to be super exciting. Kind of two year later check in to see how we are. So, Jonathan, welcome to the show.

Jonathon Schultheiss: Thanks. Yeah, thanks for having me.

Stuart: So for people who I'll link the previous episode in the. In the show notes here, but for people who hasn't haven't heard our conversation before, do you want to give the quick Jonathan Schuldhuis backstory?

Jonathon Schultheiss: Yeah, sure. So real quick, my core focus is I sell corporate 401k plans, right. So we work with larger companies to help them build better 401k plans, but also we try to educate their employees. And we feel that most Americans struggle with personal finances. And so one of the books that you guys helped me with is really geared towards personal finance.

Stuart: It's one of those things. I think that my background is in it for financial services. So it's a sector that I've always been. Yeah, it's a sector I've always been interested in and had some, if not at the client facing level, then at the systems level. And from a personal perspective, it's never been something that's that daunting. Also never been something I've been that successful at doing what I know I should do. But that's a separate story. But it's not daunting. But so many people do find it daunting. And it's very strange that the. For something that's so important, so many people just get confused by the terminology or just get shut down by it. Is that something that you find Deal?

Jonathon Schultheiss: Absolutely, absolutely. And it's funny because most people are intimidated by finances and a lot of the intimidation is mindset. And there's an amazing book and matter of fact, I implement this in our process and the book is called Psycho Cybernetics. And have you heard of this book? It's amazing.

Stuart: My dad read it in the 80s and I've.

Jonathon Schultheiss: It's an older book.

Stuart: Maxwell Moulton.

Jonathon Schultheiss: Yeah, Yeah. I can't remember. I can't remember the name, but you're right, Max.

Stuart: Yeah.

Jonathon Schultheiss: So. But he was a plastic surgeon and he started realizing that as he changed people's face, it changed their lives. And what he realized is it was their perspective of themselves.

Stuart: Right.

Jonathon Schultheiss: And it goes deep. And it said. And I relate this back to finances. And so people go, well, I was bad at math in school, therefore I'm bad at numbers, therefore I'm bad at finances, therefore I'm not going to work real hard in my finances, right? So they become intimidated. But it has nothing to do with finances. It goes all the way back to the intimidation of numbers. Right? And so in my practice, what we try to do is we try to, we say, how can we break down those barriers and take the intimidation out of it and change it. So also in psycho cybernetics he says, you got to have a mindset shift. Right? Right. And we try to create what we call a new identity. Right? Because, you know, a lot of times people, you know, are looking for, you know, that new identity. And it's funny because when we do this, we have a process that we call Become a 401k superhero to your future self. And now people aren't thinking, I'm bad at numbers, they're thinking, I want to be a 401k superhero. And we've got T shirts and silly things like that. And so we're always talking about how do you become a 401k superhero? And and then I start educating them about the concepts of my book. All around the premise of this is how you become a 401k superhero. And now people are like, hey, I want to be that. So now they're identifying themselves as what they want to become versus I'm bad at numbers.

Stuart: So that's this interesting bridge into the book itself. Which came first? Was it the superhero kind of framework or did the book come first and then framework came out of that?

Jonathon Schultheiss: Totally the book, totally the book. And what's interesting about that is, and it's funny because if you think about the market that we serve, it's really kind of heavy, that blue collar market. And I can remember sitting in a meeting with the chief financial officer of a company, I'm like, hey, I got a book to help educate your employees. And he goes, that's great, Jonathan, but our people probably aren't going to read a book. And I thought, fair enough. So I actually took the book and I created it into an audio book, right? And then it was like, okay, but are they really going to read an audiobook? And I thought, okay, but there again, fair enough. And I was like, well, how can I get them to, to take action? And I'm a student of marketing and I love a lot of the stuff from Russell Brunson and Russell Brunson says in his book what's the Mac think of which book it was. But he started talking about, in history, every movement has three things in common, right? And it's a future based calls a new opportunity and a charismatic leader, right? Every, every movement history has these three things in common to Christianity and every other movement, even civil rights and everything else, right? And so I thought, how can I create that inside of a plant inside of a company's culture and get people start thinking about their finances? And I thought, okay, well here's what we can do that the future based causes. How can you identify as something in the future? And we came up with become a 401k superhero to your future self. And so now people are going, you know, it's not that I'm bad at finances, it's that I want to become a 401k superhero. And when we do giveaways, we give away T shirts. You'd be surprised what people would do for a silly T shirt, right? And so now these people are getting excited about it. You see it starting to create the movement. And then I say, hey, I also have this book. And I talk a little bit about the book, but then I'm never pushing the book. I'm just teaching the concepts from the book. So really at the high level, the book gives me the credibility to the company. It says, this is the guy that wrote the book. You know, it's funny, I was there was a client that I competed for or a prospect I competed for and I lost the business. I didn't win the business. Somebody else want it. And just recently, it's probably three years later, I'm meeting with one of the decision makers who called me, is like, hey, Jonathan, I got some financial stuff. Can you meet with me? And I'd love for you to talk to my son. I was like, sure. We get on the phone and she introduces me as. This is Jonathan. He wrote a book and he's been on TV and he's done this and this and this. You need to listen to what he says. And I'm going, wow, that was probably three or four years ago when I pitched that. But in her mind, it was like she remembered all those things and it was all because I had a book.

Stuart: That's the seed that. So yeah, it's the seed that sown. It gives someone a hook in order to associate you with an outcome for the downtrack. I really like what you're saying about the movement Element of people's mind shifts in the be a 401k superhero to your future self. Because it really does separate out the, the, the current, the current baggage that my people might have about their current situation or their past into a journey that they can see themselves in the future. And that piece, knowing, relating themselves to their future self, having that connection, understanding that they're going to get there and they can, from wherever they are, move to this place in the future. Such a great way of kind of giving people an opportunity to break from that pattern.

Jonathon Schultheiss: Absolutely. Well, that's the thing is like, hey, why do you need to learn how to improve your credit score? Why do you need to learn how to create a budget? It's because you want to become a 401k superhero in the future. Right. You may not be there today, but here's the path to get there.

Stuart: Yeah. So we talked about the book coming first and then the other assets and the bigger model coming downstream to kind of fulfill a need and make it more accessible to people, which is a really interesting way of doing it. Oftentimes we'll talk to people who have got a lot of assets already and then they want to add the book into it rather than the other way around. I talk to people a lot about frameworks. So we've got the book blueprint scorecard that really helps people conceptualize how to create a book. And that was the framework first and then additional assets afterwards. So similar to the way that you did it, the outline for the book itself, though the chapters, knowing which elements were important, is that something that came from your existing work and you had a very clear idea of what should go in the book, or was that something that kind of came out as part of the outlining process and the refinement of the book itself?

Jonathon Schultheiss: I think so. Basically in my book I have a seven step process and a formula. And I came up with the formula before the book. So it's like I had this formula and we talked about it and I kind of had the process and. And there again, that actually came from clients challenging me, saying, hey, Jonathan, how can you just teach our employees just basic financial literacy stuff? So we kind of created a curriculum and then I created a formula to go with that curriculum. And then I was like, man, I gotta turn this into a book. And so we kind of turned it into a book with you guys help, but we basically just listed out the formula and the process. And then as we went through you guys process of the interview and things like that, it's like, gosh, I can't remember, lady's name, but she, like, totally pulled a lot of that stuff out. And then it became each of the chapters of the book.

Stuart: And that just recorded a podcast that is going up either today or tomorrow with Betsy, where we were talking about another framework that we use called the five by five framework. If you don't know what to write about, then do this. And it's basically asking the five questions that you're commonly asked. The five questions that they should ask. Five action steps.

Jonathon Schultheiss: No, I totally get that. And that would have been very valuable if I didn't already have clients asking me these questions and saying, hey, what can you do? And then we literally did some education around it. And I was looking for another idea. And this is funny because you guys have actually. I actually have three books. You guys have helped me with my last two books. But, you know, after my first book, I was looking for, you know, another book idea. And I was like, man, I think I got something here. And that's when I came to you guys and you really helped me put that together.

Stuart: And the thought that you've got all of this knowledge there already. So for you, you'd gone that one step further and had the framework and the formula and the syllabus almost. But I think for anyone who's in the situation, knowing that a book is a valuable tool for them at various stages of their business, if you've been in business for any time already, you know what people are asking. It's just. I think you're undervaluing that information. So for you, if you're looking at the. What's the best way of saying this? If you're looking at the total complexity of what you do, the level at which the book sits, is that relatively basic? Is that like the one on one introduction? And then what you actually do is more complicated?

Jonathon Schultheiss: Yeah, very much so. It's basically elementary stuff, right? I mean, it's stuff that's like, oh, that's cool, right? But it's not like, oh my gosh, that's a big difference. And I think a lot of it is, you know, who we're serving is like, we really want to keep it simple. And it's know your audience. And the. Would bet that my book I actually brag about this is probably written at like the fifth or sixth grade level, right? Because that is you. I want it to be really simple because you got to think. I mean, we just said this is. People are. Most people are intimidated about finances. How can I not intimidate them? And if you start, you know, going deep and these, I mean you start really intimidating and losing a lot of people. So I would say, I say it's very basic. And here's the funny thing. As a financial advisor, I mean I have individual clients and some of my individual clients are giving my book away to other people. And these will be individual clients that'll have a couple million dollars invested with me. They probably don't need my book. But they're the ones that are reading it and giving it to their kids and these kinds of things and they see value in it because it is written at such a simple level.

Stuart: I think we talk a lot about it was a bit of a leading question because the point I keep hanging on to people about is that you're over. People are often over estimating what they think people need or what they think needs to be in a book and underestimating that introductory level conversation. Let's try to overcomplicate it which I completely get. We were talking just before we, we recorded that my background is it for financial services companies in the uk. So although I wasn't on the customer fac side the day to day job we did do financial education courses. So this is again in the UK Money Advice Service was a government service aimed at increasing financial literacy. And then people from our organization would go out and give presentations to various workplaces around London. This is when I was in London and the level at which they were pitched at because I enjoyed the subject and I'd always worked in that industry, I just naturally liked it. I sometimes get a little bit carried away and go into a little bit too much detail. But very quickly you could see when the blink has come down because people feel. Exactly. Say people feel intimidated. And even if you're in an industry where they don't necessarily feel intimidated in quite the same way. I think financial services is somewhat unique in that respect that people get very intimidated by it. Even if the business isn't that intimidating, there's still a lot of stuff that people don't know and it overwhelms them quickly. So focusing on the, on the basics, on the introductory questions, there's more than enough information to create a book from that to start that conversation. And then the second point that you were saying about the level at which it's written, the idea for us is very much creating something that is accessible and starts to build a rapport because the product is in the relationship and the conversation the product isn't the book itself. So absolutely writing it in a way that starts that conversation that sets you up for a good relationship down the track.

Jonathon Schultheiss: Oh, that's absolutely. The way I use the book is it's more about credibility than anything else. Right, right. I would guess, and it sounds crazy, I would guess out of all the books that I've given away or sold or anything else, I would say I'd be surprised if 5% of them were read. Right. But it's not about the book. It's about, wow, this is the guy who wrote the book. And that to me is where the value is. That's where the money is in the credibility more than in trying to sell the book and people reading it. Because even if people read it, they're only going to skim it.

Stuart: Yeah. Because they want the outcome. They're not buying the book for. They're not getting the book to be entertained like a novel off the shelf. They're buying it for the answer. I always often think if, I mean, I can look around here at the bookshelves in the office, I've got books that I've got every intention of reading or past me had every intention of reading, but currently has got better things to do. But if I could pay the same amount or 10 times the amount just to get the answer that the book is promising, then that's what I'm really looking for. It's not, again, the book's not the product, it's the outcome. So talking about that, then you're. One of the ways that you're using the books is pretty unique in that your actual. The people who engage you, I guess, are the employers, but to some respect, customers are the employees, which is pretty unique. So you were saying that the employers are often using the book with the employees as a way of increasing the financial awareness of their workforce.

Jonathon Schultheiss: Yeah, yeah. Oh, I actually had a. I had a client that bought 200 copies of my book and had me come and speak at their company's national conference. And so, you know, I came and they gave away books and I got up in front of the group and I kind of taught a high level overview of the concepts of the book. And so, I mean, you think about that and I mean, that's incredibly powerful. And you know, often what will happen is as we, you know, we do these group meetings, some of the folks that are the employees, they'll have outside business. Right. They may have another financial advisor they work with or something else. And my whole business is built on providing value. Right. If I can provide enough value to you, and I'm providing more value to you, than your current financial advisor is providing. It's only going to be a matter of time until you say, hey, Jonathan, can you just handle this for me? And so, you know, we look at that as kind of the ancillary business that we get from our regular job. Right? And so if we do our job really good and we have something that shows us as the expert and we're providing value to these people, then, you know, it's just a natural fit that they're going to want us to handle other business that they have, and that's been super successful for us.

Stuart: And you were talking about the referrals before as well, of people giving the books to other people. I mean, the fact that this exists as an asset, as a very easy way for people to share an understanding of a concept that then leads to a conversation that then leads to business. It's a fascinating way of leading with the giving hand and adding that value up front in order for something to happen down the line.

Jonathon Schultheiss: Well, not only that, but you also think about the client retention rate, right? Because I was sitting in a meeting and I had a chief financial officer, I was talking about my book and she, she said, jonathan, I just want you to know that I went on to Amazon because you guys put it on Amazon for me. I went on to Amazon and I bought two copies of your book. And she said, I left you your first Amazon review. She's like, I bought them for my children. And you think about that, right? So I mean, if somebody else comes in behind me, do you think she's going to change their advisor or is she going to go with the guy who wrote the book that she gave to her children?

Stuart: Children, yeah.

Jonathon Schultheiss: You know, the client retention is a huge value.

Stuart: That has the example we were saying again in the podcast that just came out, we were using that similar example of saying the relationship that's built with the book as the beginning piece goes on for a long amount of time, that you can't really, you don't know how long the relationship goes on for. No. Or how deep it goes. And all of that relationship that's being built outside of individual one on one conversations that's being built buy the book effectively. You're right. When the person decides that the time is right for them to do something, are they going to go with you or they're going to chance it on Google and start looking around for reviews? The relationship's already been established. Now it's just coming to come into fruition. The model that you've got around the superhero, the 401k superhero. You were talking about having T shirts and hats and doing the events. How much of the business is now based on this superhero model? Is that just one channel that you've got or is pretty much everything based on this that's supported by the books and the videos and the work?

Jonathon Schultheiss: You know, it's funny because the book led to the 401k superhero. And it's a big part of it too, because I teach the concepts. And so we were just in a presentation the other day for a new client and. And I walked them through. I call it the evolution. Right. I was like, hey, I had this, I was challenged by a client and therefore I created this curriculum. And then I turned the curriculum into a book. And then I tell that same story how I was challenged. Nobody's going to read the book. And so I put it in an audio book and then they're following me. And then I go, then I learned this concept and how do you have people have an identity shift? And then I talk about this is how we do it. And I introduce the 401k superhero so they understand the premise. Under the 401k superhero is the curriculum from the book. Right. It's like, how do we teach these things in a non intimidating way that people want to be a part of it? We create what we talked about a minute ago, creating a movement. Right. And so people buy into that and they go, that makes a lot of sense. And so I think it is. I don't know that I would have the 401k superhero concept if I didn't have the book. Right, right. And it's the foundation. Yeah, it's the foundation of all these things. And so we actually do videos that come out twice a month for all of the employees that we serve. And so all those videos are concepts from the book. But sometimes I'll talk about the book, but very rarely we just talk about, here's how you become a 401k superhero.

Stuart: Yeah. That has an amplifying element in the sense that it all builds on the other pieces. So there's a book. If they read the book, there's concepts in there, there's the audiobook, if they listen to it. The same concepts are there. There's the individual videos on the onboard, same concepts are there. The regular information that you're sharing, the events that you do, this kind of amplification of the messages to really help people take those small steps forward towards becoming that superhero. The fact that it all builds on itself and I think that's something that anyone can do. The idea of building a framework that you can then hang multiple things off, multiple communication points off, it's not. Again, some people might get intimidated by the idea that they need this fully fleshed out funnel and it needs to all be complete and robust. And. But the idea of laying the track as you go, that is really the key.

Jonathon Schultheiss: Absolutely. I had no idea, you know, where it would go. It's just you start doing it and it's funny, I think before I ever had a book, I was like, the end result is, I got a book, right? Oh, my gosh. I got this book. It's gonna be amazing. And then you realize, once you got the book, I gotta market this thing. Right? And then it's like you start all over again. And then you go, man, I wish I could do this better. Right. And so it's like you keep learning. But I think it was Einstein that said you can't solve the problem with the same level of thinking that created it. Right. And as you keep uncovering new problems, then you have to create a higher level of thinking and you solve that problem and then you just keep building and building on top of it. Right. And so I think that's the strategy. Strategy is you start somewhere and you just provide something into the market. And there was a great book, I think it was called Great by Choice, one of his Jim Collins books, and he wrote about Microsoft and he said that's how Microsoft was. They just kept putting stuff out and then they would tweak it and make it better and better. I mean, you know, Microsoft is huge. And so if it's good enough for Microsoft, why is it not good enough for me?

Stuart: Yeah, and it's. It's similar to the lean startup approach. That whole idea of you can't tell how the market's going to respond. No matter how much time and effort you put into something, it's not until you actually, it faces the cold heat of real life that you start getting that feedback. It's one of the reasons why I was just in conversation with someone yesterday talking about the difference between our product and our approach versus a more traditional publishing approach, which is months longer and tens, if not big, tens of thousands of dollars more without knowing that you've got a hit on your hand, is far more effective to, like you say, start with something and then see where that goes and pivot from there in something that's relatively time and cost effective to do. That's a much more successful outcome because it gives you that flexibility and freedom to pivot, you're not kind of anchored to the first idea and who knows where it ends up.

Jonathon Schultheiss: Yeah. I think you got to think of it as always evolving. And that's marketing 101. Right. Is you got to test it. You got to test it and tweak it and you're constantly improving it until you find the message that starts to resonate with your target audience. I mean, you can't start this process with that already in mind. I think you have to learn it along the way.

Stuart: Yeah. Going back to that Einstein quote you said exactly the same. You can't solve the end problem at the beginning. It has to be kind of iterative and developed.

Jonathon Schultheiss: I love Dan Sullivan who says, he says. What does he say? It's the different skills that get you out of Egypt than what gets you into the promised land. Land, right. And so you think about that and it's like that's the direction you want to go. But you just got to start moving. And as you start moving, you start learning, you start going, oh man. Because I, you know, I forever go, man, I wish I'd have done it like this. I'm like, well, how can I just go ahead and do that now?

Stuart: Right. Do now.

Jonathon Schultheiss: Right. And so it's like, I don't want to go back and have to redo the book. Let's just keep building on top of it. And then I talk about it as a step installation, own. Yeah, right. And then it has presentation. I do.

Stuart: Right. And it builds on its credibility as it ages. There is something about the fact that, hey, this is the model that's been working for the last two years, five years, 10 years. We've iterated and developed on this with hundreds and thousands of clients. And this is the program that we're left with, I guess particularly as you're talking to more, more corporate clients that the people that you who are directly engaging you are the, the heads of the CFOs or the finance department in the organization. That long term credibility and framework that's got some miles under it that must have a benefit now. So like the oak tree example, the best time to plant it was 100 years ago. The second best time is today. One of the questions that I had and super respectful your time, so want to wrap up shortly. But one of the questions was this idea of the corporate responsibility for helping employees be more successful in your time in business. Have you seen that change where it's gone more away from? We provide a corporate pension and people don't have to think about it to well, you're on your own. And we're not thinking about it to well, you're on your own, but we should probably help you. Has that been a development just in the time that you've been working?

Jonathon Schultheiss: Absolutely. That's changed a lot. And so there's been a lot more, I would say out of the last probably four or five clients that we've won. The fact that we come in and educate their participants on finances has been the reason that we won. There are companies out there that create what they call financial wellness programs and do that, and that's a big thing right now. And so we basically tie that to Service in the 401k. Right. As a 401k advisor, we're going to offer this as an added benefit which is to educate your employees. And that has been a huge shift because it used to be. You're right, it was almost like companies were concerned about what they call their fiduciary responsibility when it comes to their 401k. Now companies are more concerned of how can you educate my employees? Because if you look at the number one concern of most CFOs, it's employee retention, right? And how do you retain an employee? Because we just went through what we call the great resignation, right? And so all these other companies are saying, hey, here's a $2,000 signing bonus and 50 cents more an hour. And you and I know that 50 cents more an hour is not going to make a big difference in somebody's financial outcome. So if we can educate them and they become better with their finances, they're less likely to leave their job for small signing bonus and a small pay increase. And so we started for the long

Stuart: term with the employer employees and employees are in it for the long term.

Jonathon Schultheiss: So we start talking about the ROI of that, right? So why hire us as a financial advisors? Because if we can educate your participants on financial literacy, then you can share retention rate. And we even go deep into the numbers where I did the math in my area in the Carolinas that for every 1% of turnover that a company has, it costs a something like $180,000 for every 1%. And you start equating that and go, if you hire me and I can increase your retention by 1, 2, 3%. It's way more than the cost of me. And here's the thing, I probably in the same cost as the guy you have now. So what if I come in? It doesn't cost you anything more to have Me, but yet I can increase your retention. Here's how I do it. And then I lay out my curriculum and concept. And that's kind of what's winning us business.

Stuart: Yeah. And going back to your point on pivoting and developing the program as you go along, I'm sure that's developed in response to the more recent changes in what the customers require. So having all of these assets that are there and not thinking that you have to go back and change each individual one, but just change the overall approach and build on it campaign.

Jonathon Schultheiss: Yeah.

Stuart: Right. Yeah. Such a fantastic. I love these conversations because circling back with people after they're using the books and this conversation, even when we spoke last time, which probably. God, I mean, that must be a couple of years ago now. Time goes fast, but this level of the way that you were using all of the assets around the model wasn't the same then. Certainly wasn't the same when we were writing in the first place. So to come back and be able to see how it's developed into something that's a real kind of differentiator, we

Jonathon Schultheiss: should talk two years from now. Who knows? A little bit.

Stuart: Exactly. Exactly. Although next time, if you come on, next time it needs to be in the cape and the superhero outfit.

Jonathon Schultheiss: That's right. I'll wear my 401k superhero shirt next time.

Stuart: Fantastic. Well, thanks again for your time, Jonathan. I mean, it's really great to be able to share these stories. Yeah. I'm really excited to see people. For people to listen to this and get inspired to either use their own books in a different way or if they're on the fence and haven't done it yet, to really pull the trigger and lay that seed.

Jonathon Schultheiss: Absolutely. Hey, if any of you guys do just want to go check out my website, I've got a couple of things. I mean, you can download a free copy of my book and even the audio version is there, but it's. It's the focused book dot com. They can go over there and get a down download free copy. And then I also have the website where you can go and see all my 401k superhero stuff. And it is become a 401k superhero dot com. So feel free. I don't spam you. If you get a free copy of my book or anything like that, it's really. To me, it's not a list building thing because we kind of talked about my strategy. But yeah, it's a free resource that's out there. Anybody can go check it out if they're on the fence of writing their own book.

Stuart: That's fantastic. Well, we'll make sure we put a link in the show notes and email that we send out when we release this as well. Perfect. Okay, buddy. Well, we'll pencil in to check in another couple of years. And I may be passing you as well. Well, back and forth from here in Pennsylvania down to Florida, so maybe we'll grab a coffee as well sometime.

Jonathon Schultheiss: There you go. I'm right up the highway. Hit me up.

Stuart: All right, fantastic. Well, thanks again for your time, and thanks, everyone, for listening, and we'll speak soon.

Jonathon Schultheiss: All right, Stuart. See you, buddy.

Stuart: Cheers, buddy.