Bridging Topics

Stuart: Hey everybody. Welcome to another book more show. Got the pleasure of Dean with us today and today we are going to run through the job of work of the book. I think last week we were talking about James Sinclair and using his example of a book that wasn't necessarily talking about his product or service but. But it was certainly appealing to his audience. So I think today we're going to expand on that a little bit. It's a great example.

Guest: Well, that's part of the, that's part of the thing is really understanding sometimes the book doesn't have to be directly overtly connected to what it is that your business actually does. So, you know, a couple of examples or a couple of like ideas we could talk about with that that are related but not specifically and overtly. When I say overtly, I mean that they're not, you know, talking about how to do business with you kind of book where it's about, you know, what to your service that you offer. And when we talked about titles, one of the cool things was that we mentioned what would be the title of the book that your ideal audience would definitely want to read. And so sometimes when you think about that if your product or your service is a gateway to something else that maybe they don't know about your service yet or know about it as a way to that that's specifically what they're looking for. Sometimes you need and get to build a bridge. And that's one of my favorite ways to use books is to make a book as a bridge to something. So I often talk about and sometimes books can be, you know, sort of market data driven, you know, where you're kind of looking at, you know, where it's something that's a result. One of the ones that I think of immediately when we talk about this is the book that we did with Luba Winter about the adult acne cure. Now, you know that title and that book is a example of something that it's not talking about anything technical, not talking about, you know, her, her device per se, which is a, you know, a $900 device that combines LED lights and galvanic waves and is, you know, technically proven to eliminate or help cure adult acne. But it's very, you don't know how to kind of make that the topic of a book because that's not what people would be looking for. But when you take this approach of saying, well, what would be the book that my audience would definitely want to have, it's. That would be a perfect example, you know, the, the adult Acne cure. Now, when you look at. You can't really go wrong by focusing your book on the end result that somebody wants.

Stuart: Yeah.

Guest: You know, it feels like that's the. That's the win.

Stuart: And I think that's the thing, isn't it? Separating out the collection piece, the identifying the invisible leads. They're giving people a way to raise their hand as broadly interested from the subject, separating that from the end result of converting into some business and understanding that this is the beginning of a conversation. It's a way to engage people. It's not a sales brochure to sell them on a product. It's a way to engage them in a conversation.

Guest: Right. And there's the thing. It's like, you know, you're kind of. You're absolutely right in that I talk a lot about this idea of compelling and convincing. And so we talked, I think, in our title episode about how titles, if you can have a compelling title, that that's going to have, you know, people are going to want that. Want your book in their collection. And sometimes just the fact that they've asked for your book, if you title it right, and you're educating somebody about a set of information or beliefs or something that they would have to understand and believe to be true in order to be ready to hear your offer to help them do whatever it is that they want to do.

Stuart: Collecting the leads and thinking about the end from their point of view. What is it they're looking to get out of this interaction? What problem is it that they're looking to solve? Not necessarily thinking immediately about what it is that sort of jams your product and service into a. Into an audience's mindset. But I think there's definitely that separation from offering something to begin with to identify them, to help them, to allow you to. Like we do with the real estate business, the Lakefront Guide to Lakefront Home Prices. Understanding the user journey, knowing that a person who's likely to sell their house, one of the questions they're going to have is, how much is my house worth? And engaging with them at that early stage, I think it's a great way of not necessarily limiting yourself to a technical conversation about your product or service, but really offering something of value first.

Guest: Right. And, you know, I met with Julie Matthews in Winter Haven right before I left, and we had been talking about this idea of a book called Willpower Schmilpower, why Trying to lose Weight almost never Works, and what to do instead. And, you know, you may not know what Julie does by Me just describing that title. But she does hypnotism and as our hypnosis. And so that is kind of a misunderstood thing in the general population. People may have some loaded concerns about hypnosis. So the fact that the book is a bridge to kind of introduce and educate the person who can begin where they are, which is everybody can relate to the fact that willpower is tough and that everybody can. I mean, you know, when you've seen the COVID for the book, right? The COVID is a woman looking up over a table with a cupcake. She's looking kind of longingly at the cupcake off to the side. And everybody who has ever tried to lose weight can relate to that image. And those words, willpower, shmiel power, you know that it's. Everybody can relate that that doesn't work or it only works for a very short period of. And when you can start where they are, start with that. That's something that they can relate to that they've tried to lose weight or smoking, to stop smoking using willpower. And to have now the opportunity to build this elegant bridge of all of the things that somebody would need to know to be prepared your services, you know, to be prepared to have a conversation where you can offer your services to them. So where Julie, when we record the book, will talk about starting right there. Willpower doesn't work. And why and describing exactly how that happens, then going into a more detailed explanation of why that's happening, what's actually going on. That willpower is a conscious effort that's happening in our conscious brain. But the reality is that our subconscious brain is what actually runs the show. And giving examples of that to show how once we're, you know, once we're programmed, our subconscious is set to stay on that path. And so the habits, the triggers, the behaviors that we're always used to are the ones that win in any kind. You know, any time of stress, it's always leaning back towards the norm. So if people understand that, then they're ready to hear that you can actually bypass the conscious brain and speak directly to the subconscious brain and react wire the programming to support the behavior that you really want and need to have happen to successfully lose weight. And it happens effortlessly and magically. But you're ready to have that conversation only in the context of starting with and illustrating step by step why the current model doesn't work. And then you're ready to have. Then you're ready to make the offer. Because the next question that people will then ask is, well, can I be hypnotized. And wouldn't it be great if Julie could say to people, you're probably wondering if you can be hypnotized. Not everybody can be hypnotized. I've set up a special recorded message where I Will you just call. Listen to this recorded message, and at the end of the message you'll know exactly whether you can be hypnotized or not.

Stuart: So that's orchestrating the journey, thinking, spending a little bit more time about where the person is at the moment and then what steps, what concerns they might have, what. What their internal monologue is. Going through the steps as they're reading the book. As opposed to, you can imagine another title, the Hypnosis Solution. How to you how to lose 50 pounds in five weeks through his Hypnosis. Which in and of itself, itself isn't the worst title, but it's. So it's not engaging people.

Guest: Yes, it's exactly it. You're. And that's why I talk about overt. That's what I say. That there's no mystery in that or. No, like you're not building a common bridge because hypnosis is a loaded word in that people either have an ignorance about it and. Or a misconception about it or a fear of it or a aversion to it. They might not pick up a book that says hypnosis right on it, but they would be willing to join a conversation about willpower because that's something they can relate to. Right.

Stuart: I mean, as you say, it's not loaded. There's not as much emotional baggage or preconceptions. And you can imagine that the same in a lot of industries. So financial services or real estate or weight loss more generally. There's a lot of industries that have baggage. And to be able to have a mechanism, a device to start a conversation with people who might otherwise not necessarily be in tune with the message that you're trying to put out there. Yeah, it's an easy way of sifting and sorting or getting people to raise their hand and then sifting and sorting those that are likely to. Or more. More in tune with what you're saying rather than being turned off at the start because of where they're coming to the conversation from. I think that one's interesting as well because it comes from a. It's almost coming from a negative point of view of dealing with the negative side of the industry or negative side of. It's addressing the concerns up front. So an easy way to start the conversation by addressing Concerns that people already have and then leading to a more positive place rather than the other side. There's another three or four books in there that deal with the starting a conversation with the positive side on it. I think the point I'm trying to make is just that it opens up. This isn't a one book fits all solution. It's opening up an audience in a small targeted segments who are likely to engage and then go on to the next one.

Guest: That's it. And I always look at a book like this as a bridge. You know, I mentioned that. That's really a great way to think about it. And one of the exercises that I'll often do when outlining a book is I will start, I'll get a big piece of paper like from a sketch pad or a big, you know, sometimes 18 by 24 inch paper or 11 by 17. I mean, you've seen them at my house, big, you know, big drawing pads. And I will, at the top of the page, I'll write one sentence that describes where somebody is right now. And then at the bottom I'll write where I want them to be or where they want them to be. What do we want somebody to believe? Right. So our, if we take the, if we take willpower, smill, power as an example, if we were outlining that book, and this is exactly the process that we go through is at the top you describe the person and where they are right now. Right. Somebody who has weight to lose, has struggled with losing weight in the past and has tried and depended on their willpower to stick to a diet or a exercise regimen. That's where, that's the reality of where they are right now. Then at the very bottom, we want them to be at a point where they understand and realize that their subconscious mind currently is working against them and that if they can, you know, get their subconscious on their side, that they would have an effortless and almost magical way to amplify whatever current, whatever program they choose. See, and this is something that I learned several years ago. I did some work with a pretty famous hypnotist who would go around and do. They would advertise on the radio, they'd come into a city, they'd do, you know, a weight loss event in the evening and weight loss at 7 and stop smoking at 8:30. So they do a, you know, two, two events in one night kind of thing. And what we found was that when somebody enters the process of trying to lose weight, they will make a choice on something. They kind of explore Their options, they may have a more. They may have an affinity to one or another. They may, well, I'm going to join a gym or I'm going to do CrossFit or I'm going to do the Zumba, or I'm going to do P90X or I'm gonna try Atkins or South beach or Paleo or whatever. They're gonna choose something. And if all of the things that they are looking at are. Are viewed as this or hypnosis, that they might choose something and let all the others go. So they say, oh, I'm gonna do P90X. Right. And that. That's not. They. They might think that that's not. That's instead of doing hypnosis, you know. And so when we meet somebody where we've all. We're picking up the journey that they've already tried one or several things and it didn't work because they couldn't stick it out. And now positioning and being able to use. And say, use hypnosis as a tool that makes whatever you decide to do work better. Right? Because it helps. You still have to. Hypnosis on its own isn't going to lose the weight. It has to be in support of a behavior. So you get to let somebody pick something that they're going to do and this will amplify it. So in. In that. On that big piece of paper. If we start with where they are at the top, where ideally we'd like them to be at the bottom, where they're open and ready to that take the can you be hypnotized test and then lead into talking about. About maybe getting. Joining a. Doing a hypnosis program to amplify whatever they're going to do to lose weight. That what are all of the territory that they have to cover to get from where they are to where we want them to be. And I just start brainstorming in no particular order, just randomly. Well, they'd have to know about the subconscious. They have to know about examples of how that's not working. We'd have to explain what hypnosis is. We'd have to, you know, talk about the programming that they already have that's working against that. You just start randomly getting everything out there, almost like, you know, brainstorming. And then what you can do is start circling things or start, you know, putting them together in a path that kind of is. Well, they start here and then we talk about this. And at the end we kind of have a really great outline for the arc of what you want to explain to somebody.

Stuart: You know, I think that's often the problem, isn't it? I mean, just listening to what we were talking about there. I must admit that even being around some of these conversations that have happened before, that one particular point of understanding that the hypnosis amplifies the other program without being that attuned to it. I'm one of those people who naturally tend down a fitness route, but I know that when I've got a 6am CrossFit class, there's quite a few occasions where my willpowers not as strong as it could be. So knowing that there would be something that could amplify it and that to. For that to come out in a conversation which could then be captured in a book and take them on a journey because someone's thought about the position of where someone like me is coming from.

Guest: Yeah.

Stuart: To put that in another book to try and convince me of that, to have a title that kind of caught my attention. Just making that one particular point very, very difficult to do just by thinking. Thinking about it a little bit more. I think we'll. For the show notes, we'll make sure that. I'm not sure whether we've still got that outline in the office anymore, but if we don't, we'll recreate it from this conversation to give people an example, because I think in the last 10 minutes we've probably just given people one of the best tools that they could ever have for outlining the thought of their book, because I think so often. I was listening to another podcast today and it was very apparent that the product.

Guest: What do think you. There are other podcasts, I believe so,

Stuart: but this one wasn't as good, so I wouldn't recommend it. It's not like ours, which are the most valuable. So in that context, the product was the book. So they were talking and concentrating very much on the writing process and getting the story across, which that had its merits in its own right. But to think about this in terms of. Here's a starting position where we expect them to be because we know our business. Here's the end point in order to bridge it into the next step, which is kind of that minimum viable commitment to take that first step and then what are each of the things? Job one is to get them all written down. Job two is to put it in an order. And then job three is to get it in the format that they can appreciate it. Yeah, it's a fantastic tool.

Guest: All very exciting.

Stuart: It is very. And I think this kind of orchestrated step of leading someone to a conversation, of having multiple ways. We've talked to quite a few authors recently who've written their first book and are now thinking of their second or the Phil Mandanza is kind of spring to mind. Particularly I think they're on their fourth or fifth book now. But as a straightforward tool to engage one particular conversation, to have a funnel on the back of it to support the journey that we're talking about taking them from where they are now to what we want them to do next, to have multiple funnels. You quite often hear about people talking in industries. We hear it with some of the financial advisors quite a few times talking about a particularly dry subject. It's difficult to write about without just getting drawn into technical language. I think this example is perfect for industries like that where it may be challenging to write or it could be seen as challenging to write very engaging conversations when you're thinking about in terms of just the technique, technical content. But I think there are always areas of the industry or things changing in the, in the world that bring a particular subject to the surface. And because this is a straightforward process, a quick process of being able to get something out there in front of people, I mean this really is an endless content stream.

Guest: Yeah, I agreed. I mean, you know, you start thinking about the, you know, the purpose that would be sort of a before unit or a lead generation type of book. But when you start thinking about having a book that maybe explains the journey that you're going to be going on with somebody, if it's a, you know, multi step or a long term project that maybe is going to take 30 days or 60 or 90 days or an ongoing relationship to have a book that's going to kind of outline the aspiration, the long term view of what you're going to be working on together and how that's going to go.

Stuart: I think we should definitely do a show in the future to make a note of it on kind of the during to after unit transition and kind of orchestrating that journey further down the track. There's the.

Guest: Well, you think about. I mean so we've modeled it here. So with the. We have the 90 minute book which is the front, the lead generation, the introduction to the whole concept of a 90 minute book. We've got the preparing for your 90 minute book which helps people, you know, in the process once they've decided that they're going to do one how to get ready for it. And then we have beyond the book right now what to do now. That you've got your book. It's just such a, such a versatile tool.

Stuart: You know, I think that's the thing, isn't it? Think about it as a, as a tool. It's not the book, isn't the product itself. We're not for the majority of people. It's unlikely that however many book sales they get from selling the book in this context is going to equal the business that they'll get from the book, using it as a tool to orchestrate more business in more customers within their business. So I think at each stage there's an opportunity to get a device in front of people, something in front of people that's easy to consume. It's got a feeling of authority around it because we still live in a world where printed material has some authority to it. And to be able to orchestrate that process and really guide people and predispose them to take actions that you want to take further down the track. It's kind of sown the seeds early to smooth the way for that journey. I think it's a great opportunity. And I think what we've talked about today in terms of engaging people in a conversation that they're already having, regardless of how. How fixated someone might be to begin with on the product or service themselves, this is to engage people and start a conversation and then lead those people. I mean, the element that we didn't mention is it's kind of sifting. It's doing a job of sifting and sorting. Because the people who do call the Willpower Schmilpower number for the assessment to see if they are candidates. Julie has a process in place where. Whereby she just needs to deal with the people who have phoned that number.

Guest: It kind of presorts the people who are likely to. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's the whole thing is that when you look at what's the outcome that we want to have happen as a result of reading the book, we meet somebody where they are willpower. We explain that whole situation, we go through that whole journey, we take, we focus everything to conclude on one next step, which is to call this phone number to see if you can be hypnotized. And then as part of that explanation and explaining the whole thing, then inviting people while they're already on the phone to just go ahead and leave their contact information right there and have something to send them as the next step.

Stuart: It's pretty seamless, isn't it? It ties in nicely. One of the calls, one of the podcasts that we did A couple of last week. Sorry, last week's call, we were talking about a Facebook campaign that one of the authors was running. They know what their numbers are. They've got ads that they know a conversion rate for, so they can just dial, turn up or down the Facebook campaign in a way. And Julie spoke. I mean, it's a perfect example again, because as people see that passing through in a stream, it's not necessarily something that people would. A term that people would search, but they'll certainly engage with it or resonate with it as they see it. And then there's easy steps to take people through stage by stage. So again, another example of pointing the book towards an audience that you think will engage with it, allowing them to read and then self select themselves through to that final stage and then engage. You only need to personally engage at that last stage. So it's a fantastic way to leverage your time and attention into dealing with people who have really raised their hand and identified themselves as clients.

Guest: That's it?

Stuart: That's it. Well, that seems like the perfect place to end. We're just coming up on half an hour, so we are in tune with the podcast length. As I said before, we're going to do. We've got transcripts of all the podcasts on the website, so head over to 90minutebooks.com podcast for the latest episode. For this one particular, I'll make sure that we've got some pretty detailed notes in there so people can follow along. And I really encourage people to think about the audience or a first audience that they can engage with this approach. And then we'll have. I'll try and get an image up of the brainstorming piece of paper that people can think about for their own. For their own books.

Guest: That's perfect. I was gonna say, where do people email to say I want to write a book.

Stuart: Yeah. So if people can email us to support at 90 Minute Books and then we'll. Betsy's over there waiting to speak to people. Likewise, if people have got any questions about this process, we're always more than happy to talk to people about how it might best serve their. So email us at supportyminutebooks and we'll be there to get back to you and help you through this process.

Guest: Awesome. Perfect.

Stuart: Fantastic. Thanks, Dean. We'll catch you next time.

Guest: Thanks, Stuart. Thanks, Stuart.