Minimum Effective Dose

Stuart: Hey everybody, welcome to another book more show. Stuart and Dean here again today. We're actually in London, although we're on separate floors of the hotel to do this, just so we get some good audio quality because there were some gems in the meeting this morning and I think this show is going to be spot on for anyone that's thinking about how they can effectively use a book in their marketing funnel. So, Dean, how's it going?

Guest: Good. It's been a great three days.

Stuart: Pretty fantastic, hasn't it, really? Some really great insights come out and it was nice to see we had a bit of a mix, not one to derail us, but we had a nice mix of people who had been to the Breakthrough Blueprint live before and some people who were coming for the first time. And to see the pages and pages worth of notes that people had in terms of breakthroughs for their business, it was really good. And some good bookstore conversations as well. So I'm excited for this one.

Guest: Yeah, we had lots going on and you know, one of the things I had an insight these last three days about, it just kind of struck me how there I seem to have noticed a pattern in the things that I do and that they all seem to revolve around something we were talking about as calling the minimum effective dose is one of my favorite guiding principles. And you know, we've heard those words before. And one of the things that I always think about is what is the least amount of effort or least amount of requirement to reach the objective that we're trying to reach. And I've learned and heard those words in a lot of different ways. But Tim Ferriss talks about them in the Four Hour Body, how, you know, the basic concept of minimum effective dose is the idea that there's certain things where when you've got an objective, you can take a certain dose of something that gets the result. And there's a point at which more isn't adding to the effect, it's not making it, I like to say it's not making the boat go faster. You know, it's really just adding for the sake of adding. You know, there reaches a point where once you've reached the objective, you don't need to continue doing more. And so I've used that approach in a lot of different ways. And one of those is of course the way that we use it with the 90 minute book. And we've talked about that idea that I look at the objective of the book being to generate leads. If you're looking at a book for your business to generate leads that, to get in conversation with people who could be your ideal prospects. That the minimum effective dose of a book or the minimum viable product we've talked about before is, is really all it takes. You know, if you've got a book that is 50 pages or 40 pages or 60 pages, you know, in that the range of what we do with the 90 minute book, that really is the minimum effective dose, it gets the job done. You know, if you're, if you're looking at a. Having a book and you've got a title that your audience really resonates with and when they read it they say, oh, I'd like that book, it's done its job.

Stuart: You know, I think that's the, it's the kind of effective use of energy, isn't it? We've talked a few times before about people having 100 units worth of effort to put into something. If you're wasting additional effort on the first stage, where you could be taking the effort and using it later as part of a, as part of a follow on sequence or to deliver extra things. It's not so much that we're saying to people use the minimum effective dose because we're suggesting people being lazy or take shortcuts.

Guest: Not at all.

Stuart: I think it's the effective. Effective is the, is the key word though. It's the right amount for the right job at the right time.

Guest: Right, that's it. You're absolutely right. And we were, it was funny because these three days, you know, we had an author in the, in the group who has written a Sunday Times. Is that the equivalent of the New York Times is a Sunday Times best selling book. And we were calculating that he had invested probably 500 hours in writing the book and how that was a lot of fun to see that in writing a book, you know, or what was like a, you know, which when he was surprised by the thought that having a Sunday Times best selling book would be, would open the floodgates to all the people trying to seek him out and find him. And you know, he realized that's not what happens. So being a smart marketer, you know, he's figured out how to, how to find people and how to start relationships with them. And the book has always been a great value for him in terms of building reputation and getting his message out there. And as a, you know, a long term thing, having a book in the, in the world that 20 years from now will be just as, as relevant. And so he does not in any way regret having spent the time to write that kind of a book. But I really believe that most people, most business owners, most entrepreneurs or professionals or whatever, whoever's considering a book that most of the time I kind of go with Dan Sullivan's idea of the 80% approach, that the fact that you invest your time in creating something that is just that, the minimum effective dose. What does it take to reach the objective that you're trying to reach with your book? And if you really kind of. I look at it for me and I've done several of these, several of the 90 minute books. It's been the way that I've done books prior to setting it up and us creating it as a service that we offer for other people kind of developed out of the way that I write books. And I think that the. What's appealing to people is that they know what to. They know what to say, they know what the message is. And I think that it's more important that you understand what you're trying to say, what your message is, than how many words it takes you to say it. But I had an epiphany today because it was really interesting to me that I've used this approach in everything that I do with marketing, not just in the 90 minute book being the minimum effective dose of a book, but also in everything around it. You know, I was thinking to myself how I developed this idea of a very minimal landing page where the only purpose of the landing page is to encourage people to leave their name and their email address so that they can download a copy of my book or get their email address so that we can engage with them and get their mailing address and send them a copy of the book. So there's. That really has stemmed through and I realized that probably 2016, so 1997, 98, when we first started making landing pages almost 20 years ago, that scary thing

Stuart: is there's probably people listening who weren't. Were barely born back then.

Guest: Yeah, we have an author that was. How old is our young author? Seventeen, I think. Connor Blakely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 17 years old. But when you look at the, you know, the pattern, and it's still true about websites today that often people start by asking the question, well, what else? You know, that seems to be the, the pattern. We could add this and we could add this and we could add this on our website. And what I really found was that the less that I put on the website, the more response I would get, the more names and email addresses. So when I look at it, I let the objectives guide the content. And so if I look at it that the objective of the book is to have a book available with a title that my audience really wants to have. If I look at the book we did with Luba Winter, the Adult Acne Cure, that book says exactly the right thing to exactly the right audience. And no matter what, they don't know or care, whether it's 50 pages or 250 pages, it's got the title that promises the benefit that they want. So the 90 minute book format is really the minimum effective dose for having that book. Now when you go to think about a landing page or where you're going to send people to get the your book, you know, like looking at our 90 minute book or looking at email mastery or any of the books that we've done with our authors, the things that we create are the very short landing pages with the objective of just getting people to leave their name and their email address so that we can start a dialogue with them. And so I look at things like that, that my objective is to just get their contact information. It's not to convince anybody to do anything right now. It's just that I've got the book, you're in the right place. Here's where the book is. Just leave your contact information and we'll get the book out to you right away. It's very simple for people to, to see that. And I found when I was doing these web pages in 1997, 98 that the less options there were on the page, I find right now that people may put an opportunity for people to leave their name and their email to sign up for my newsletter or join my newsletter or whatever the offer is. But if it's buried in among 10 or 12 or 15 other things that people can click on, they're going to get distracted. And it's taking away from the core objective that I'm trying to reach with the webpage, which is to just get in a conversation with people. So by stripping everything out, the minimum effective dose to get somebody's name and email is to match what got them there in the first place. They wanted to get the book, the 90 minute book. They go to 90minutebook.com all they see is a landing page with a picture of the book. There it is, here's how to write. Publish your first book and then leave your name and your email address and that's it. And so when we do things like that, we're getting opt in rates of 60 and 70% of the people who come to the site leaving their name and their email address. So by focusing on the objective and then doing the minimum effective dose of what you need to do to reach that objective, your goals are in alignment and you end up winning. That way, you know, you get the most for the least.

Stuart: Absolutely. And I think we said before, the constraints give a freeing and allow you to focus on the real job of work. One of the elements that I've heard you talk about before in terms of the landing page matching the ad. So if people, a lot of people I guess listening to this will have seen perhaps the Facebook ad that we've got from the 90 minute book certainly come through that landing page. But what people will notice is the ad copy in the very first place. The thing that people might see all the words on a nine word email. If we send them a nine word email, a very minimal one single job of work, Absolutely targeted landing page is. That's the only option they've got. So I've heard you describe it before as someone has the thought from the ad, from the contact in the first place. Someone has the thought that this is what I want to do by presenting them with a landing page where that's the only option. It's almost incongruent that they don't fill in their details. They went there to do this one thing, this one thing is the only thing they can do. Therefore, by not filling it in, it's almost not completing their own action. I think adding other stuff to it. So having a Facebook like here or a newsletter opt in over here separate from the book or click here for more information, it just gives people the opportunity to be distracted. And it's not that the minimum in the term minimum effective dose. The keyword isn't minimum, it's effective. And that's what's the most effective. Unfortunately, it's the minimum effort as well. Giving more effort for, for other things.

Guest: That's the way I've found it. Yeah. If I were, you know, if it's. Thank God that the minimum is the most effective because that's a win for everybody. I don't have to write, I don't have to write so much. You know, if it was, if the minimum effective dose of a book was 250 pages, I wouldn't have any books on the market right now, you know, but thank God that the minimum effect of those is 50 pages and I'm able to crank those out.

Stuart: Absolutely. Because again, I think it's the, that's the most effective communicating that single task. That you're trying to do that one job of work that you're trying to achieve, start a conversation with them that you can then continue in another way that's about the right size because any larger than that, it's starting to go. You starting to just put stuff in there that isn't core, that isn't just. It's either going into multiple topics or you're starting to try to be convincing rather than compelling. Yeah. Or for whatever reason you think that, okay, it's a physical book. It needs to. A book equals 100 plus pages. Going on the mindset from everyone else, not actually stopping and thinking for a moment about what it is that you're trying to do. Just as you said before, what you're trying to do at this stage is make an invisible prospect visible, get someone to raise their hand and then start a dialogue.

Guest: That's exactly right. And that's the third important part of this is start a dialogue. And the only thing that I want to do and you just, you said something that reminded me that most of the people listening to this have come through and had an experience of this by seeing an ad or hearing somebody, or hearing me talk about, or hearing Dan Sullivan talk about or hearing somebody talk about this idea of a 90 minute book and that you could get a, you could download this, get a free copy of the 90 minute book by going to 90minutebook calm. And so most of the people listening to this have had that experience. They've gone, they've left their name and their email address and then at some point there's probably they've received a nine word email. You know, we talk about just if it's been 60 days or 90 days since we've engaged with somebody, you know, one of the most effective things we have is sending quick email where the objective is to determine are, is somebody still interested in writing a book. So sometimes the easiest way to determine that is to just ask, I mean to say, hi Stuart, are you still interested in writing a book?

Stuart: It doesn't need three paragraphs of introduction beforehand.

Guest: I mean it. So yeah, when people see that or hear that concept, you know, it seems like so simple, simplified, but it doesn't, you know, when I look at it that it's the most effective way to reach that objective of seeing is somebody still interested in writing a book. And we've seen that nine word email. You know, I did a full series of ads in Success magazine, full page ads offering the email mastery book. The ad was just talking about the amazing nine word Email that revives dead leads and telling the whole story about that and giving people the nine words which are just, are you still interested in? Fill in the blanks of whatever it is that you do. And so, you know, we had lots of different examples of people, you know, looking, using that. And I've used it for. With real estate agents saying, are you still looking for a house in Georgetown? Used it with. We had a gentleman who's used it for Jiu Jitsu. Are you still interested in Jiu Jitsu classes or learning Jiu Jitsu? Recruiter, executive recruiter had used to say, are you still available for work? That's an interesting way to use it. And of course, we use it right here with, are you still interested in writing a book? And once you just engage with somebody, once they respond to that email, it's done its job, right? It's the purpose, the objective of it is to engage in the dialogue with people who are still interested in whatever it is that you do. How's that? Because your brother is a yacht broker and you always send the email, he sent the email saying, are you still looking for a yacht?

Stuart: It works at every level because it's the most straightforward personal question that you can be asked. So the yacht example, people heard us talking about it before, but that revealed a contract that had been contact rather, that had been buried in some other leads for a couple of years. And a reach out then started a conversation which is these things don't happen overnight in the yacht industry, but is leading towards a $150 million yacht being built. So to understand a lot of people, I think particularly if there's any kind of hint of a corporate background, we'll say, well, that wouldn't work in my industry because. But I think we've evidenced in industry after industry that that simple, effective, short, expecting reply email is a perfect way to engage and I think ties in exactly as you were saying, ties in perfectly with the sort of trifecta of the book approach. It's the minimum, the most effective and minimal way of getting people to raise their hand. It's the most effective way of engaging them and then the most effective way of starting a dialogue with them afterwards as well. It seems much more personal. I mean, some of the. Just the stuff that we do, the number of replies we get where people are genuinely touched and affectionate that they've got a personal message. I think people get so desensitized to email and the whole kind of stereotype of emails barely being opened or responded to. I think that's when there's obviously it's just a newsletter being sent out, the response rate and the engagement that we see from short personal emails, it's through the. So I think cycling that back, circling that back to the authors and the nine minute book program, writing a book, that's the effective length, the minimum effective length to start that conversation. For anyone who works with us, we set them up with a landing page that reflects or is set up in the same way as the 90 minute book page. Again, the one that we found to be the most effective. We help or we craft for them just a short engaging email to begin with. And that series focusing at each stage on what it is you're trying to achieve. So we're not trying to write a book so that you become a New York Times bestseller, particularly writing a book so that you can sell copies because for most people that's not as effective. Being an author isn't the product in its own right. Starting the conversation, then helping them or writing for them at the beginning of a sequence that can identify those leads, capture those leads and start the conversation. For the most part, we talk about the nine minute books as a business tool, as a way of uncovering invisible leads. I think this is, without doubt we've proved that this is one of the most effective ways of using a book of that because it's pulling all of the right levers to, to get traction and get engagement in the most effective way possible.

Guest: Right. And I think that, you know, the practical way to start observing this and start applying this is to look at all the things that you're currently doing and just ask the question, you know, is this what would happen? Like where do we reach the point that, that it's all this extra effort is not going to make a difference, right? Like there's, there's such a huge difference in the amount of work between 90 minutes and 500 hours. And you have to ask in question, where does the line, you know, like the ROI on the, on the extra effort that it takes to create more. Is it, is it, is it effective? Is it adding anything? Is it what I call making the boat go faster? You know, when I look at my objective, the thing that I'm looking for is the number of people who will ask for the book. Whether it's the adult Acme Care, whether it's email mastery, whether it's 90 minute book, whether it's the guide to Winter Haven House prices, whatever it is. The only the thing that matters is at what rate, what's the percentage of the people who come to the landing page that leave their name and their email address. Right. And so I've seen that we're getting, as I mentioned, it's not unusual to get 60 to 70%, certainly 50% of the people who come to a page to leave their name and their email address. So if you compare that to what your current website is doing, you're going to find that those numbers are very high. And I find it, I mean, I'm surrounded by and friends with the people at the very top of the marketing world that are amazed by how high the opt in rates are. When you strip away all the excess, all the excess stuff, all the distractions, all the distractions, where does it become a distraction? You know, and so just like the minimally effective dose, it's not beyond 50 pages. It's not making the boat go faster. 50 pages is a minimum effective dose for a book. To say that it's a book yet it still feels like it's short enough that you could read it in one sitting, you know, and so 150 pages is not making the boat go faster. It's not, you know, the, the incremental return on the extra hundred pages is not getting you more opt ins, it's not getting more people to ask for it. The title is. What does that.

Stuart: Exactly, exactly. And just exactly what the route I was going down as well. The title gets the opt ins. It carries on the thought. 50 pages for the first book, that same amount of effort that you would go into writing the additional hundred pages. You could write a second or third book aimed at a slightly different.

Guest: You could write a second or third book or you could write a series of 12 newsletters that will follow up with those people for a year.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah. Which leads back to the other conversation. We're running up towards time now. So I have to pick this up in another show. But it follows on to the other conversation of the. The conversion rates over time of how many people are likely to convert in the first 90 days and then the following 12 months. Yeah, so we'll definitely pick it up in a future show. But absolutely the not sacrificing everything just in that one shot. Having an orchestrated plan over time. Yeah, it's definitely a better use of time and way more effective. Fantastic. Well, as I said, we're just about to run up on time, so if anyone's interested in writing their own 90 minute book, then obviously head over to 90 Minute Books. You can reach us. Just drop us an email to hello@90 minute book if you've got any questions about the process and we'll get back to you. Betsy or Susan, they're waiting to follow up on their calls. If you want to get started now, obviously there's no time like the present, so just head over to 90minutebooks.com start and then just think in the next with just 90 minutes of your time. You could be one of the examples that we're talking about of people getting opt in rates of 50, 60, 70%.

Guest: Perfect.

Stuart: Any last words from. From. I think you're seven floors below me. Any last words?

Guest: There we go. I think you've said the I think we've reached the minimum effect of dose.

Stuart: Perfect. Okay, Dean, thank you. Speak soon.

Guest: Thanks, guys.