Filling the Void

Stuart: Foreign. Welcome back to the Book More Show. It's Stuart here with Betsy, Betsy Vaughan. How's it going down there?

Guest: It's fantastic. It's. It's going well. We're gonna, we're gonna, we're waiting on a hurricane at the moment, but you know, that comes with the territory this time of year in central Florida.

Stuart: Yeah. Everyone, as we're recording this, it's the Friday before Hurricane Irma. It's due to hit on Sunday. So a lot of the office and the guys and the team are kind of in the central Florida area. So the last. We're kind of grabbing this opportunity to record the podcast quickly in between not quite boarding up windows, but making sure things were as secure as they can be. So anyone that's listening to this on Saturday when we released it, fingers crossed for kind of an easterly shift in the, in the storm that's heading this way.

Guest: Absolutely.

Stuart: Okay, so fingers crossed on that one. We are today going to talk about something that I think it's come up once or twice before, but I was looking back over the last couple of or over the history of the shows. I don't think we've done a kind of a deep dive on this idea of specific books for a specific reason. So we spend quite a lot of shows in the past. We've talked about kind of the evergreen nature of the books and writing something for the funnel that attracts your best group of customers or the target audience that you're going for. But there's also a big opportunity. And what a number of authors have done is taken more of a specific funnel approach or a specific event driven approach and created something that kind of serves that need, provides some valuable information to people, but within a much smaller set of information and for a specific reason. So this isn't going to be a show talking about kind of the single target market. We've talked about that quite a lot. This is more about using an external leverage point, an external point in time as a trigger for the reason to write something that engages with that audience. So it's kind of that crossover of an external force creating a demand for the information and how this is a quick and easy way to fill that gap and really get ahead of the competition and be ahead of other people in providing useful, valuable information, all with the same aim that we always talk about, of making invisible leads visible and engaging those people that you might not otherwise have an opportunity to engage with.

Guest: Very good. I think there's a whole lot we can talk about here.

Stuart: Definitely it comes up Quite a few times. It's almost a shame that we're not doing this in a couple of weeks because I was just talking to someone over the last two days and there's quite an exciting opportunity that they've got to do exactly this, to really target this. There's three or four things that have just come together at the same time. Meaning that they can write three or four books that kind of feed into a similar kind of funnel but all come to it from a different perspective. It's all new information out there that people are pretty desperate to find information on, but we're just at very early stages of it, so I can't go into detail, but that was the kind of the. The seed of this idea. It's. It really reminded me that we've done a couple of others that obviously we can talk about and it's. It really is a great opportunity to leverage the external things that there's a demand for. Anyway. I always remember there was a kind of. In the Internet marketing sphere there was a guy who I heard talk must be five or six years ago now he was talking about the Borneo sea monster effect and actually Dean's talked about the Cedric the Lion effect as well. It's pretty much the same thing. So the spike in. In search volume for certain terms driven by the external and like the news cycle. So Cedric the Lion, I think it was Cedric or Cecil. Was it Cecil the lion with the lion that was shot by some. I think it was a tech CEO of somewhere. So it kind of everyone. There was Internet outrage around it and there was a huge spike in demand and then that was pretty much zero before and, and tailed off pretty quickly afterwards. But being able to. I don't mean writing something specifically for that kind of peak in a news cycle, but another story that would otherwise be quiet. Then there's a demand. So people are very keen to hear about something or interested in information being able to write to fulfill that need. So as opposed to the Evergreen mod which is kind of your run of the mill customers who are there all the time, just there's a general interest in the subject because that's the business that you're in. So yeah, it's definitely. There's a. There's a couple of examples recently this that have brought this back to kind of the fore of thinking. So yeah, it should be a good opportunity to dive into it a little bit. A little bit here. I think we were talking about kind of just before we recorded as we were kind of running through the. The ideas of where this comes up. There's kind of the two triggers that often people can jump on board with and kind of fulfill the need. One of them is kind of a time based trigger and the other one is a kind of first to market or an external change type trigger. So take them one at a time and go into, into details of both. So let's start with the time based one. So one of the ones that got us thinking about this was a book that we've recently finished which is the aiming for people at the start of the fancy football season. So coming into the beginning of September now all of the games are starting to. Well, all the games have already started to be played. I run the risk here of showing my kind of UK credentials and quoting completely the wrong things as well as American football games over here in the

Guest: US and last night was opening game. So okay, we just had first game last night.

Stuart: I kind of got halfway into that sentence and I realized that I didn't write this book, Jimmy did. And it was very clearly going to sort of come unstuck. But that's. Let's get back to principles and then I know a bit more what I'm talking about. So that principle of a time based thing, although it's an annual thing, so to a certain degree there is an element of evergreenness about it because year after year this is still going to be the same. Jimmy's drive to write this book by the beginning of August was very much that. That was marrying up with everyone's attention to the football season starting and fancy football leagues really taking off and getting some momentum. So that as a time based trigger, those things that happen regularly and there really is a spike in interest and there's much more attention to a subject or even if it's the particular element of a subject. So fantasy football, the season runs for as long as the season runs. So it's not that there's. There is a spike in interest at the beginning, but there's a longer tale of interest afterwards. So a follow up book or a different book targeting a slightly different part of that funnel, maybe how to. And again the details of this are going to catch me out, but how to do something with your lineup, with your setup in the last stages of the, of the league to make a difference. There may well be a book in that subject that is separate from the, the onboarding, the starting season, how to set up your league. It may be how to maximize the league or maximize the engagement or perhaps the leagues will typically see a drop off of Engagement as people lose the, lose the excitement of the beginning of the season. So all of these time based markers is a great way to look at the funnel in a slightly different way. And then quickly and in a way that gives value to that particular point in time. Create something then for that audience. And again, we started off by saying it's another way of getting people to raise their hand because you're kind of engaging in a conversation that's already going on in their mind.

Guest: Yeah, that is definitely a way to get people moving, making them thinking, get them putting a timeline to it. So I love the, I love something

Stuart: you just said there about the, the timeliness or the, the deadline involved in writing as well. Having a clear line in the sun by which you need something completing is a great kind of artificial constraint that you can put on yourself to get it done, knowing that you're going to miss the boat. If it was done like this particular one, completing it in October was going to be nowhere as near as effective as completing it in August. So it's another good trick if you like to make sure that you get moving on it and don't procrastinate.

Guest: Absolutely not. You know, they can be just as effective if you decide to write that book in March. But I don't think you're going to see anything happening with the football book till probably, you know, late summer, you know, so.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Definitely not a reason not to do it or not reason to wait until you point yourself under the artificial deadline. But if it's coming towards it, then definitely a good time to kind of pull your finger out and get running with it rather than letting it just drift and drift and then missing that spike in attention for another 12 months.

Guest: Yeah.

Stuart: Some of the other more obvious time based ones are things like kind of New Year for fitness is the one that immediately springs to mind. So obviously there's a big spike in people's commitment to getting fitter or eating better around New Year's and New Year's resolutions. Things like tax planning in the spring as people's taxes are due and the new financial years starting actually again, that might be a difference. So in the uk, the financial year for everyone in the UK starts at the same time at the beginning of, of of April for the financial year over their tax record. Tax submissions all have to be in the same time, don't they? It's not.

Guest: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stuart: Okay. So anything that's like that, anything that has a kind of a clear line in the sand where people are going to the external forces are going to make the people are more interested in the subject. The realtors coming into the spring obviously house buying. The movement in the house market is much more buoyant in the spring after the winter college visits I guess college visits are going on around spring leading into early summer as well as people are starting to think about college applications. I'm just looking at book we're about to push through to the production stage now. So the college prep roadmap, that timing for that is obviously passed for this year. But getting that out early next year is going to be great. Providing something for people's attention in those early stages of the year. Kind of where we are now in the year September, we've got the whole kind of back to school and then people planning for 2018. So even when you look externally to books, things like calendar sales obviously go through the roof in the run up to Christmas because the value of that is much more at the beginning of the year than it than partway through the year. So for every business out there, there's almost certainly whether it's just entirely calendar based and completely independent of your own business or whether your business is cyclical, that there is a peak in activity certain times rather than others. Being able to tie something into that event has a peak in demand and a great opportunity to kind of capture those people's attention at a time when they're most likely to be interested on the time based one. The other thing that it does raise is that whole question of the 2017 guide to such and such. So there is a way of kind of artificially giving recency or giving a time based demand to something that doesn't necessarily have time based demand. So we use this on the real estate side of the business quite a lot. Where will suggest that people create the 2017 Guide to Winterhaven Lakefront House Prices or the 2017 Mortgage Loan Guide, all of those types of things with the information not necessarily changing that much year to year. So property demands or average property prices for a particular area or mortgage requirements. The the thresholds that people pass or the current rates or the current products year to year, they don't change that much. But there's definitely a option to label something or identify something as time based to increase that attention that someone might have to or make it seem more relevant. Now I mean the advice that we always give is that use all of these tricks for good, not evil. So you really want to be doing something that does make it more valuable this year than last year. It does change year by year. But it's definitely the opportunity for the 80% of it to remain the same because it is just static and then just tweak it for the 20% that makes it more valuable for that year rather than the year before. So that's definitely a good, interesting labeling.

Guest: When I look at that, like I looked specifically at one of the books we were talking about and it was specifically for 2017. And my thought process is, gosh, if he just didn't have that available on there, that this book would be relevant for 1819 going forward because I don't think the information is going to change. But saying 2017, I think there's something psychological about oh wow, right here, right now. And yeah, it kind of, it kind of put that urgency on like, oh gosh, I need to, I need to be playing in for my fantasy football. I need to get on, on board here or whatever the subject matter may be.

Stuart: Yeah, definitely. And it's absolutely the case that can be overused. I mean, it's typically the case, you see it always that someone will take a good idea and then try and hammer it into, into something that's maybe not quite fit for purpose. So I think the, for the football one, having the. Unless you could clearly identify something, some new information in there for the 2018 version rather than the 2017 version, it might not be the best idea because to a certain degree you don't necessarily want people reading and then thinking that, oh, this content's just old, there isn't anything new for this year, and leaving a little bit of a bad taste if the same person would have been perfectly interested if they viewed it as an evergreen book that didn't have a year associated with it. But for example, I'm just looking down the gallery now and there's a recent one, the 2017 Guide to Maximizing Social Security, something like that. There is more of inherent belief that things do change year to year and whether the majority of it stays the same, it's just a slight update. Whether that's just financial thresholds for collecting something or the age at which you can collect Social Security or state by state, it might change and state's own regulations might change year on year. So if there is something that you can include in there that does not only make it seem more timely, so more urgent and pressing or relevant for that year, but also legitimately gives them the most up to date information, most useful up to date information, then it's definitely a good way of, as you said, not so much raising an alarm Bell but highlighting the fact that this is important information for here and now, not some old information, because that's a lot of the problem. I mean, the quality, quantitatively getting information on the Internet isn't a problem. I mean, you could spend the rest of your life just researching one tiny subject, but qualitatively it is quite a challenge because it is difficult to tell the good from the bad information. And the real benefit of everything that we talk about in creating books this way that are cost effective, straightforward, fast to do, is that this isn't going out and getting a publishing deal. It isn't. Once you've written it, it can never be changed without a massive cost or expense or hassle. Changing something year on year on year. It's not as straightforward as writing it once and never addressing it again. But it's definitely very easy and may well be worth the slight additional effort to update it in order to stay relevant. Particularly in a market where things are changing and you can provide value year on year.

Guest: Right, right. And I think with our process specifically, it's a very simple process to update, you know that. So update that first, that version to make it fresh and new. And that's sort of one of our selling points. You know, you have that option that if a year from now tax rates change or something new shows up in the world of fantasy football league or. Yeah, you have that option to sort of update it to make it relevant again. So.

Stuart: Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah. A couple of the other time based ones that springs my. In conversations that I've had with people over the last couple of months are things around time based events independent of the calendar. So the two that I'm thinking of are around kids. So one of them was a tax strategy in one of the states whereby if you enroll in a certain program in the first 12 months. And again, I might get the specifics of this wrong, but the principle's the same. So the tax based program, like a savings program for a child, whereby if you enroll within the first 12 months after the kid's born, then that plan that, that, that scheme as we call over that plan account is, gets tax breaks through the whole of the child's life. And I think you can. The aim is that it's a college planning program. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So that is a program that's open to everyone but not that many people know about it. And it's time based because it has to be done within a certain period of time. So if you're in an industry, I mean financial services is the easy one to think about because it's very regulatory driven in that way. But I'll say if I can think of another example as I'm talking, but being able to identify, and there are certainly lists available that identify all newborns within a certain state and knowing that they've got a very hard deadline, so being able to offer them the guide to complete this, which at the end of the day is equal to free money, pretty much knowing that they've got a certain deadline, so being able to plan out to map what that person's journey is as they're thinking about it. So obviously in the first couple of weeks they're not thinking about it at all because they've just got a new baby. First couple of months it's probably not a priority either because they're betting in at home. Next couple of months after that they're probably thinking, oh that's definitely a good idea, I'll get to it. But quite possibly don't get to it. So then you into the last three months or so when there really is a hard deadline where if they don't take action, which you can guide them in, then they'll miss the boat. So being able to write something to support people specifically down that path is a great opportunity, a time based opportunity and one that can tie in with a thought that they may well have already had. And you're adding value to the conversation because you're saying here's the easy way to do it and you really need to do it now. I think that person's business particularly wasn't necessarily related to those accounts because as a financial advisor, they're not. There's not really much money in them. It's much more of an execution type thing. It's kind of set up and done rather than advice. But demographically speaking, the majority of people who are in a position to execute on those are also in a position to save in. Other savings plans have a bigger financial portfolio. So it's a great way of identifying and giving, starting the conversation with something of value to a, to a cohort, to an audience of people who are your prime targets. Even if that subject isn't necessarily the prime one. The other one that spring to mind as I was talking is I forget the people's names or the name of the book, but there is, there was someone that provided dental nurse training to Canadian dental practices as part of the cpd. The ongoing professional training that they have to do, they have to complete. There's like an audit every year where they have to submit their, their time, their hours for. And if they're in a deficit of hours, then there's some emergency training plans that can swing into action to make sure that people get that those hours in within the deadline. So knowing that the deadline is whenever it is April again. So knowing the deadline is April, that realistically people need at least eight weeks in order to execute if they are in a deficit. So really the four weeks prior to that is when they need to get their hours in and then decide where they are. And the consequence of not doing it is significant as well because they fall out of certification. So knowing that time based stamp, being able to write something that helps them with that, that critical question of are you. Here's how to bring together all of your hours to know if you're, if you're over or under. And here are three sources of hours that you might not have considered. All of these things that are pressing needs for people at a certain time is a great way of writing something that, that ties in with a time based kind of demand for information and then leads on to onto further ways that you can help them afterwards. As I say, these guys particularly sold courses that, that provided some intense training for those periods to help people through.

Guest: Those are great examples for sure.

Stuart: And you can imagine that if sticking with the dental one, I mean those guys throughout the rest of the year will be sending out information to practices. There was another. Well, we've written a couple of books for dentist practices but we've got kind of like return on hygiene. I forget what the other one, the other one is. But all of these guys have got like evergreen approaches to how to improve the effectiveness of the dental practice. Additional revenue streams making the staff, they're better trained so you can sell their services for higher values. All of those evergreen funnels are great, but in addition, having a real time based one where there's an external crunch, an external deadline that really adds some kind of fuel to the fire, it kind of lights a fire under people because external to you all, then they need to do something. By this point, if there is any opportunities like that within your business, it's a great way of adding an additional funnel in and give it some extra juice because of kind of these external factors.

Guest: Exactly. Yeah.

Stuart: Okay. So I realized one of my. We spent quite a lot of time planning today for disaster recovery over the weekend, but I didn't plan sufficiently for disaster recovery on my voice because I didn't make any coffee. So I'm going a little bit croaky already. Okay. So before my voice goes out and tally, then let's quickly hit this second point which is kind of the first to market. And this one's almost not more interesting because I think the other one's got perhaps more potential, but this one has definitely got a. There's something exciting about being first in and providing something before everyone else. Because like you saw with the. My background, as I've said before, is working in for the financial regulators in the uk. So I was working in that industry when the financial crash was happening around 2008, 2010. There were a lot of books written within the first weeks of the financial crash talking about the causes and the contributing factors in hindsight, towards the end of it and certainly in the years afterwards, the causal factors that were talked about there weren't necessarily correct. A lot of them were debunked or it turned out to be other things. But at that point in time there was a key event happening, there was a demand for information and the people who were there first to market took all of that traffic because there was a kind of a vacuum of other information. So regardless of, I mean all of these things were written with best intentions and with the best information at the time, but they didn't have to wait for it to be perfect. It wasn't meant to be a comprehensive look in hindsight about all of the factors that could have contributed it. It's here's where we are today, here's what we know and here's some information that might develop and lead the conversation further. And for us as business owners looking at engaging potentially invisible leads, customers that we might truly be able to help being able or keeping an eye out for those vacuums that appear and filling them with information that's useful and valuable, it doesn't have to be the most comprehensive or the most complete, but at this point in time it's the best. There's a great opportunity to develop and push that conversation or even start that conversation with customers before taking it further. Because again, there's a vacuum of information. There's a conversation that's already going in their head, people looking for this information. So filling it and providing being that source really allows you to be the go to person for that information and take that conversation further. So in this scenario then previously we talked about time based ones. This time we're talking about first to market and kind of external event based ones. So a couple of the examples that swing to mind immediately when we're talking about this are legislative changes or kind of like structural changes. Within the country as a whole, I mean, I think both in the the UK and in the US in last six to 12 months, there's been substantially more change than probably in the three or four years before. When we look at things like changes to health care, changes to environmental regulation, changes to immigration, to the space program. Well, as we are this weekend, kind of storms and recovery planning, the last couple of years have been, the last couple of months have been pretty bad for that. In the UK we've got the whole Brexit, European Union issues. So there's a lot of external changes that are going to have knock on effects in your market and for your customers. And regardless of which side of the debate you're on, whether you think the changes are good or bad, the fact remains the change is happening. And that change leads to uncertainty and uncertainty leads to people wanting information and reassurance of either decisions that they've made or are thinking about making are correct, or here's a better way of doing it and filling that gap with that information and really providing value as a precursor for a later conversation.

Guest: Yeah, you mentioned earlier, you mentioned about getting on the Internet now. Take the subject of immigration. It's a very hot topic here in the US at the moment. You could go for days and weeks and months searching immigration information online, but getting it out, people are looking for that right here, right now. And so much of what's out there is, I don't want to say false. It's just irrelevant at this point. Being able to get the newest and unfortunately an ever changing cycle with certain topics like this. But being able to get that information right out there and in the hands of the people who are out there looking for it, there is a, an excitement about it. And if there is and it's necessary, we need that. We need that. So when people are doing that search and they pop up and find the newest information, it's important. Sometimes I think people go ahead.

Stuart: Sorry, so I was just gonna say I'm coming from a credible source adds value to it. Cutting through the noise of the kind of media cycle down to the facts of what's actually happening gives people that calm sense of certainty that they've come across some information. That adds more value than just hyperbole and hype in the news conversation that they might be having.

Guest: Yeah, absolutely.

Stuart: As things change. So you're talking there about the speed of change and there's always the concern, we talked about it before in terms of whether you'd write the 2017 guide to something or whether you'd want to make it slightly more evergreen. There is an element of balance between the cost and overhead of writing something new for information that might change the following week versus the benefit that you might get from being ahead of the curve and being the first to provide the latest information, whilst all the time making the point that this is where we are today. So I think that opportunity to start a conversation but lead it elsewhere always needs to bear in mind. Borne in mind as well. That sentence didn't sound kept in mind. Always keep it in mind that there is that this is the start of the conversation and the next step, the next thing that you should do is this. So there's that saying that people always want to be led to the next step. They don't want to have to make the decision themselves. So by saying to people on the immigration front, for example, writing something to say that they're currently is a ban from these six countries. However, this is what we know you can do. So if you're in a situation where you have a visa approved but you're from here, this is what we know today. But as we're writing this, the situation might change. So what you need to do is the next step is go over here to the website to see the latest details or follow our YouTube channel where we're regularly updating the information or listen to our podcast for the very latest information. Because as we're writing this, it may go out of date with the stroke or a pen, but still having written something that is valuable and really writing it from the perspective of trying to help the reader cut through but not getting caught up in the fact, like I was saying, with the financial crisis issues, making it as correct as it can be, but not getting caught up that this book needs to be a peer reviewed, academically robust, university level resource for the next 50 years kind of separates you from that. Going into it with the best intentions, that it's the most accurate information. But you're not categorically saying to someone that this is always the case. You're giving them the option to lead people develop the conversation elsewhere. Then I think that's the, that's the sweet spot of this. Being first to market, providing some that value, engaging with the conversation that's going on, but all the time understanding that things change and then if the situation does completely change in six months time, we're not suggesting that this is a $10,000 investment with six months of your life. This is a low cost, fast way of getting something out there. So if it does make sense. In six months, write a completely new updated version because all of the information's changed. Ideally, the reason that you're doing this is to generate business, generate leads. So what you've generated from this in those intervening six months or 12 months or whatever the number is, should have made that first project worthwhile and validated the fact that you want to do it again for, for the second subject or the updated version of the subject.

Guest: Exactly. That's. That's all great points and great information to get out there to think about.

Stuart: I think it's a good way of thinking about. We talk so much about and books inherently in themselves because there's often such a. Like we say, there's this expectation you've got to sit in a darkened room for six months and troll through edits to get it out there. All of it paints the picture that this is written, etched on a, on a stone tablet and can't be changed. It's a big process to do so. Switching the mindset away from that to this being a fast way of getting to market, to be ahead of the information vacuum that's out there to create something that starts a conversation using these examples of things like legislative change. I mean, even this weekend we're talking Congress that are just back or, yeah, Congress are just back from the summer break. So there's a big legislative list of things to do that might include health care reforms, might include tax reforms, might include further immigration reforms. All of the issues that are coming up from the weather events that are going on pretty much. I mean, I'd almost say just on those five things. No matter who you are listening to this on pretty much any industry or any business out there, I can almost guarantee there's something in one of those five subjects that means that a large proportion of your customers are going to have questions raised by changes in those environments. And writing something to answer those is a fast way of starting a valuable relationship and identifying those invisible leads in a market that might have been static for goodness knows how many years before that. And you would otherwise be relying on Evergreen stuff. You could tell I was getting a little bit passionate about that because I started talking faster and enunciating less clearly. So apologize in advance to whoever's transcribing this and anyone listening to this at more than one time speed. We're just going past the half hour mark. So conscious of everyone's time, we'll wrap it up. A couple of the other ones I just had as bullet points on the bottom of the list. We talked about external event driven changes there, but there's also technology changes as well. So things artificial intelligence, self driving cars, the whole kind of gig economy type changes around Uber, the what's the dog walking service? I can't remember, but they're like the gig based dog walking Service and TaskRabbit and all of these things that are technology based. The new there's an Apple event on Tuesday next week. So that might have a whole host of technology and things related to it that mean changes or potential changes for your customers. So it's not just legislative change that that happens and creates a vacuum technology changes as well. So there might be a lot of things, I mean even if it's my brother's, unfortunately down in Fort Lauderdale. So they're doing a lot of locking down of the property down there ready for this weekend. But they had, just to give a completely random example, they had just had a who load of fencing material delivered because they're about to replace the fences in the property and the technology around the bolts that hold that in place. We were talking about last weekend. There's a whole world of new technology just around these, the fixings and how you build fences, which that might tie into immigration changes as well. But building walls around the yard, technology changes like that are moving at a pretty fast pace as well. So it's not just the big technological change, it's even down to the relatively small fixing level of a fence around your yard. Not that there might be a whole book in that, but technology changes can come down to the kind of micro level as well as the big industry changing, macro level changes. So I guess the challenge at the end of this podcast is just for people to think about that option. Pretty much. As I said, I would guarantee that of those five legislative changes that we talked about and some technology ones that are coming up, there's certainly in your business, your industry, something that is creating a vacuum out there for information that your customers are desperate for. And creating something that adds value by answering the questions to the best of what the current position is is a great way of identifying those invisible leads and starting a conversation. And that's really what we're talking about in each of these. So there we go. I think that is a show. Anything that I think we've covered the outline pretty well. I don't think we've missed anything.

Guest: No, I don't think so.

Stuart: Perfect. Well, on that note, I will say thank you, Betsy, for your time again today. I know we've got some other things on our mind. With the storm heading up, but thanks for your time.

Guest: Absolutely. Anytime.

Stuart: Perfect. And for everyone else, head across to the 90minutebooks.com podcast. This is episode 35 and as always, there'll be a transcript and links in the show notes. If you're ready to get started, just head over to 90minutebooks.com and follow the get started links and we'll be there. Ready to help you find this idea and get something out there in the next. Well, we are the beginning of early September now, so for people who are fast movers, we can absolutely get something out there by Thanksgiving. And I'll help you start identifying those invisible leads. Okay, thanks, Betsy. Thanks, everyone. We will catch you next time.

Guest: Very good.