Rethink the Ink with Victor Beyer

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Stuart: Welcome back to another episode of the book More show back after a slight kind of vacation and illness hiatus at the beginning of the year. So everyone's back and fit and looking forward to an exciting show. So we've got Susan with us today and Victor as well, one of our authors that wrote a book called Rethink the Ink, which I think anyone that's listened to the show for a while has heard me reference that title quite a few times. It really stands out as a title. So ladies first season. How's it going?

Victor Beyer: Fabulous.

Victor Beyer: Fabulous to be back.

Stuart: Fantastic. Yeah. Good to have you on the show. It's been too long. We were just talking offline before about getting into a bit more of a regular schedule. So looking forward to that. And Victor, thanks for joining us today. We're excited to get this show going.

Victor Beyer: Thanks.

Victor Beyer: Hey guys, thanks for having me.

Stuart: This is going to be good. So a bit of background. Victor wrote a book with us through last year, just got finished up at the end of the year. He's got a super established business looking at two fronts. I'll get Victor to do an introduction in a second. But what we're aiming to get out today is just that really raw view on someone came up to the idea of writing dialing in what the subject is from kind of the broad strokes of the audience that's wants to be engaged through to the content in the book. And then really I want to dive into I know Susan was talking about this as well, the, the use of it and how we're expecting or how Victor's expecting to use it in the, in the coming months and really what we're looking to get out of it. So that being said, Victor, do you want to do a quick introduction to everyone, kind of who you are, your background and the practice and then kind of lead into the what got you started thinking about the book. And Susan, feel free to jump in anytime as well.

Victor Beyer: Sure.

Victor Beyer: I'm so thanks again for having me, guys. As far as who we are, who I am, I'm that serial entrepreneurs. I do own multiple companies. We primarily specialize. A big front of one of my companies is tattoo removal. So on the side of tattoo removal, I'm pretty much your all in one hitter. I own the clinics, I own education side where we actually teach the process. We also deal in the equipment. We're kind of the one stop shop for the physicians, for entrepreneurs, for people looking to get into the business. And then we also own a digital marketing firm primarily that specializes in taking care of physicians, getting Their marketing up to speed. As far as the book itself, it's really aimed at. There's a lot of misinformation. I don't know many industries out there that are as misinformed, both practitioner wise and the public, on how this process works. I'm also a national trainer for one of the world's biggest laser companies. So when I go train physicians, practitioners, clinic owners on how this process works, especially those who have been doing it for a while, typically they're completely misinformed on where the inks reside, how the process is done. And then you have the public, the laser companies over the years have put a huge amount of money behind telling that their equipment's the best. Certain things, wavelengths work with certain colors so they can sell their devices when it's completely opposite. So the general public end up going to get the removal process done and end up with undesired results, scarring and bad outcomes when we're the complete opposite.

Stuart: And that kind of.

Victor Beyer: So the book is really designed.

Stuart: That strong message from the manufacturers and the, the elements that they're promoting to kind of reinforce their own marketing affects the customers a lot because that's the, as you were saying, that's the message that they hear. But is that the same with practitioners? Do they, do they succumb to the same expectations? Or is it more of a case of once a practitioner has been trained, there's a certain standard that they need to hit and that's kind of educated out of them? Or is the problem as much with the practitioners as it is with the customers?

Victor Beyer: No. So, and that's where I kind of lean into my industry. There's as far as practitioners and let's just say you're a physician and you wanted to get in and get into the laser industry, especially tattoo removal, you'll typically have a salesperson come to you trying to sell you a machine that's well into the six figures. And that salesman's misinformed, but he's going to tell you anything you would like to hear in order to get that machine and his commission done. Then typically physician will pull that trigger. He doesn't know the industry. He's never done tattoo removal before. He's been mistrained by somebody who has the wrong information. Now you have a deadly combination because misinformation, mistraining, and the client doesn't know any better because they're walking in and they've read the same misinformation. So at the end of the day, I'm not looking to change the world. I'm just tired of seeing people get hurt. And I'm also tired of people claiming things that they know in their heart and soul are not true.

Stuart: Right. It's definitely one of those industries where there's a very real outcome. It's not just kind of a loss of money or inconvenience, but there's a. There's a scar at the end of the process if it's. If it's not done correctly.

Victor Beyer: Yeah, this is somebody's dermis. This is their skin. They are walking billboards.

Stuart: There's no crossover between the digital marketing side of things and the tattoo side of things. It's interesting that you go from a completely kind of transient industry where things can be changed in an instant in a line of code, through to the removal of something that's absolutely kind of embedded in someone's skin. It's an interesting blend.

Victor Beyer: Well, you'd also find it interesting. I don't know if you guys are aware, but, you know, when we go ahead and publish these books and we get them on an Amazon and a Barnes and Noble, most business owners don't realize that you can go ahead and use those backlinks to high domain authority sites right now, that the book is also bringing power that you can backlink into your site, giving it more domain authority, more power, more visibility.

Stuart: Yeah, that's an interesting question.

Victor Beyer: I'm sorry, I'm. Hang on. You're going to have to explain that. I don't know what you mean by that.

Victor Beyer: Okay, so I'll back up. Guys, Google's sole mission in the world is for them to provide you the fastest search results for the content that you've asked Google for. Okay, so Google wants to present that information from as reputable sites as they can, known as domain authority. Domain authority scored 1 through 100. YouTube happens to be 99. Wikipedia 99. Most news outlets, High, high domain authorities easily into the 80s and 90s. Barnes and Nobles, high 90s. So when you go ahead and release your book, get it onto the Amazon Barnes and Nobles, you then are provided a link to your book. You can take that link, put it into the back end of your site, point that power from your site to Barnes and Noble's Amazon. And Google recognizes that. Hey, look, these guys have been pointed to a high domain authority. It has to be factual, good information, hence you get more power to your site. Does that make sense?

Stuart: Yeah, definitely. I think just that authority building, whether it's in the technical sense of PageRank or whatever it's being called these days, or just human as they're looking. There is an element of authority from those published sites, whether it's Amazon or Barnes and Noble or wherever the books listed. It's those, those real eyeballs that are going across as well as the kind of backend system type eyeballs, if you like, for want of a better term, that really pull that authority through. The idea of getting in as many. Getting the message out to as many authoritative domains as authoritative areas as possible. That's really one of the great benefits of writing something. It's not that you're relying on a Wall Street Journal or Washington Post or another authoritative source to write something about you. You're kind of preceding that machine, that mechanism by writing something yourself and really getting the message out there. What was it that brought you to the book? So obviously you were passionate about the subjects. You've seen a lot of the misinformation and mistakes that are out there and a real desire to help. Was there a particular trigger point that made you think that this should be in the format of a book and something that needs writing?

Victor Beyer: Yeah. So I'll give you just a kind of quick 10,000 foot view with owning the schools, the clinics, the marketing company. I've pretty much done and played in a lot of bag of tricks per se out there. One of the things that really drew me to it was one, yes, you get the benefit of domain authority. Getting more powerful backlinks to my clinic sites, my school sites, the ability for. And I'll kind of look at what we call the five fronts that this really became palatable to me. One, we're featured in a movie that just got released. We did a red carpet premiere. I believe it was April last year. It's the only tattoo removal documentary pretty much in the world focused solely on laser removal. Took us three years to make it the that got released right before Christmas. If now the movie producers have come to us, they got wind of the book. Now if you buy the movie, you get a copy of the book with the movie. That's first front number two.

Stuart: We'll make sure that we link people across to it.

Victor Beyer: Actually, the movie's called De Inked. It looks like Dinked. I know it's available Amazon Prime. I do not know. I know they've released it there for prime members. I don't know. I know they were also in negotiations with. I believe it was the Apple. I'm forgetting the name of the Apple store.

Stuart: Yeah. For anyone listening along, see if I can find the Amazon link. That's probably.

Victor Beyer: Yeah. I can get you a link.

Stuart: Fantastic.

Victor Beyer: Number two is for a laser academy, my school. So one, I can definitely hook and bring in potential students who are thinking, coming to the school because I'm giving real and relative information, what they're about, the world they're about to enter and get educated on. And my biggest supporters who have heard about the book, purchased the book, have also been my students who have already attended our school. Front number three is general public, getting them informed on what they need to look, signs for a proper clinic, wavelengths if they have any color, what they need to look for, and practitioners. I've also, I've covered a lot of ground in the book in a very short time to also get these practitioners in my industry to think about what they're doing, know some simple physics of what they're about to do to the human skin. So the book really became palatable because it offered, it filled a lot of holes per se that I wouldn't be able to fill with the, what I would consider other techniques. This just covers a lot of ground very quickly.

Stuart: So those markets we were talking about, the book being finished just earlier this year ready to go out? Are the particular groups of people that you're looking to engage with to begin with or do you have existing audiences that you're trying to resonate with? What's the, like the low hanging fruit that you're going after in terms of starting conversations with new people?

Victor Beyer: Oh, actually the low hanging fruit for us is really going to be our potential students getting them proper information out of the gate. So they're now making an educated decision before they go spend a lot of money. So, you know, we want to slow down the process. A lot of people get very excited. They don't, they hear the business, they think it's just the sweetest thing on the planet to get into. They tend to go way too fast and by the time they realize they bought the wrong equipment, opened up too big of a clinic, you're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars that have gone up in smoke, literally.

Stuart: I was reading in the book there was the story of the clinic that opened with five or six treatment rooms, but by the time they've done all that, there was patio furniture in the waiting area because they kind of miscalculated and blown all of the budget in the back and missed the front.

Victor Beyer: Exactly. So yeah, he had beautiful wrap on the front of the store, went into an outside mall, triple net, very expensive, Put every liquid, bit of cash into getting the laser, went and got a huge facility. One Treatment room. It's a very common mistake. The next common mistake I get is people assume that they're qualified to get a laser, they'll go ahead and sign a five year lease.

Stuart: Right.

Victor Beyer: And without signing the actual documents for the laser, then they're informed that they are not approved. Now they have a five year lease that they're stuck with with no equipment. Happens all the time.

Victor Beyer: Victor, how do you plan to use the book to reach those students? What's the model look like

Victor Beyer: right now? Primarily our main chain is right through our actual site, alaseracademy.com and also through our clinic side. So we've actually I have to look, but I have already sold copies via Amazon. You know the. We are playing with the idea of the giveaway right now. The giveaway is pretty much based with the movie, but it's still a work in progress. I'm pretty happy where we're at sitting right now. Especially with right now it's mainly our students.

Stuart: We talk a lot about the kind of single target market and narrowing in on where that group of people are for the practitioners or the students. Do they come from any particular, any particular channel? Is there a group of people who are more likely to become or want to become removal?

Victor Beyer: That's the crazy thing. Yeah. The crazy thing in my business is I deal with every background I've started. People who literally were pouring concrete a week before to some of the most famous physicians in the world, to some of the most famous tattoo artists in the world. So I literally run the entire gamut. If I had knocked down one market in particular, now that we're talking about it, for me, my school really caters to probably 50% medical, 50% tattoo artists. So they're a prime candidate to get out as far as the information. But I literally run. It's insane. The. If you guys want a good laugh, if you saw when I'm teaching class, I will literally have two tattoo artists across from two plastic surgeons, a dermatologist, a construction worker, the whole gap next to three nurses. And that gets interesting because the physicians want to be taught medically. The artists want to be talked to like their tattoo artists. And the people who have never entered any of those worlds sit there and it definitely gets interesting. But my industry one.

Stuart: Yeah, so I was just gonna say that's an interesting exercise for anyone listening, knowing that you coming from an environment that is quite broad, but there are a couple of high points in terms of the audience. So how you put the message out there about the book that might resonate with the physician side of it versus resonates with the existing artists. So although we talk about that single target market, it's not so much that you're excluding everyone else, it's just in terms of one particular activity. So if you know that you're pushing out an ad or some marketing material to a tattoo convention versus a medical esthetician's convention, just tailoring the language around that and how you kind of lead the introduction in. No matter what business there is, there's always an element of tailoring that you can do. It was interesting key to hear you go through that just as we were talking.

Victor Beyer: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's. That's why I said it actually feels a lot more gaps, per se. It bridges a lot of things that I did not realize until we went actual pen to paper.

Stuart: Right.

Victor Beyer: As far as you know, I think that's what surprised me. You guys really did make the process, especially Susan on her end. I have heard some people read some people that say writing a book is the most dreadful thing they've ever done. I was pretty surprised. For me, it was about as painless as it came.

Stuart: More painful. Less painful than tattoo removal?

Victor Beyer: A lot less painful than tattoo removal. Yeah. No, at the end of the day, that's what's very surprising is the per se bumps that it was able to bridge and then open up. Especially in. Because I ride both sides of owning the clinics and I'm also the guy that goes and teaches at the hospitals and medical conferences. It puts a lot of legitimacy behind when I have to go speak at the medical conventions because a lot of the time I'm the only non MD presenting.

Stuart: Right. And you found that. I work quite close with a company in the UK here that do shockwave treatment. So again, a machine based treatment that's got a lot of misinformation about it. Paul Galler I work with is a registered osteopath, but he's not a medical doctor, whereas a lot of the other people in the environment who are doing the delivery are medical doctors. And he says exactly the same. It's the. It bridges the conversation or it gives an entry point to a conversation because people have. They're not looking at Paul or yourself as just an outsider trying to come in and say something. Almost with a. The perception might be you've almost got a salesman's hat on you kind of coming in, leading with, having provided this useful information that adds to the community. And I can imagine it just oils the wheels of that conversation and just sets it off. Or positions it from a much better position than if you were just coming in off the street without that. Without that. That reason to be talking about something.

Victor Beyer: He's the guy. He's the guy, Stewart, that wrote the book on tattoo removal. You know what I mean? You know, I mean, say that now.

Stuart: Yeah, exactly.

Victor Beyer: Yeah. As far as, you know. Yes, it's absolutely true. For you guys out there that are. That struggle in between maybe two worlds, one relies heavily on education, not so much practicality. This is one way that definitely helps bust down those walls, if you will, because I ride that fine line of a lot of the physicians I play with. They want. What was your medical schooling? Where did you learn this? It's a great way to just basically bring it down, get their full attention and let's get on and get you properly informed.

Stuart: I think it's you saying, yeah, and of course. Sorry, Susan, go for it.

Victor Beyer: Go ahead, Stuart. I was going to say the, you know, of course, the listeners haven't seen Victor's book. Stuart will put a link to it below. But if you're curious. But you know, his chapters were kind of geared towards, you know, certain mindsets and so if someone just wasn't interested about a certain chapter, they could just skip over that chapter. Right. If they're. They don't care about practitioner, if you're like a lay person, just a person who wants their tattoo removed, you just wouldn't need to read that chapter. So it worked really well.

Victor Beyer: Yep.

Stuart: I think that's the secret. The. What Victor was saying before about a lot of people talk about the book being the most painful thing. And I can imagine, from a fiction point of view, I can't even imagine how you'd begin to start that process. But from a. From a business point of view where you're really looking to start the conversation and lead people to. Or give people the opposite opportunity to take a next step. That's exactly right, Susan. Someone's looking at it and looking down the title, the table of contents for the bits that resonate them. It's not that they're necessarily wanting to read it from start to finish to be entertained. They're looking for the markers, the key pieces of information that reinforce either a belief that they've already got or a thought that they're trying to complete in their own mind of I want to get a tattoo removed or I want to become a tattoo removal person. So which are the elements here that give me a little bit more information and what's the next step that I can take? Where am I? Where am I going with this? And guiding people towards the next minimum viable commitment step, the next thing that they can do to take the journey forward. It just, at every stage it just advances the conversation. And I think as Victor said, the, the thing that it does is it allows you to start the conversation. It plugs a lot of gaps, it gives you a reason to talk to someone without going in there all salesy like you should come to me to get your tattoo removed or you should come to me to get trained. It's giving them something to start the conversation and move it further forward. Knowing that at a later date that the conversation will inevitably come to that point. Super powerful way of, of bridging that gap.

Victor Beyer: His book is all all cheese. This book is all cheese. There's no whiskers here. He doesn't sell in this book. He is just educated. Go ahead.

Victor Beyer: I think, you know, that's where I, to be honest with you guys, that's where I really struggled was at the end of the process when they were doing all the links and it was time to come up with how much do I want to get for this information. A lot of information in that book is from nowhere else in the world. So I really struggled. And I'll give you a reason why. Obviously we talked a little bit about the cost of equipment. You're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars. Two, most schools gonna charge between five and ten thousand dollars for anywhere from three to five days of education. Treatment wise for the clients. My average client is worth $2,200. I have clients that spent well north of $15,000. So I really struggled saying hey, this is some really juicy, juicy stuff. That's one going to help guy looking to buy the machine. Going to help looking for the potential client coming to my clinic, help find my clinic or if they're my clinic's not in their area, they can at least have the right information before they go drop these huge potential sums of money. Boy, it was like, wow, I should charge a mint for this information. But then at the end of the day I think that's the other beautiful thing about it is just put it out there. I believe it's 799, 8 bucks. That could save this guy $100,000, save this female from getting ripped off $5,000 from a clinic who didn't know what they were doing. That's what I found. The beauty of it for just a

Stuart: minimal and I think the value to the end person if someone that buys a physical copy of it is they get all of that information for a very small cost, super valuable to them. I think the real benefit to you and anyone else that's thinking about writing is the opportunity to give that information away for the cost of starting the conversation. So although you know that the information is going to save them $100,000 on a machine they don't need or a contract that they'll get stuck into, if each individual consumer client is worth an average of 2,200 to you or 5 to 10,000 for a student, then kind of flip it around to the how much would you willingly pay in AdWords or Facebook ads to get that person having a rough idea of what your conversion rate is, being able to give it away and collect all of those leads at the top end, knowing that you're going to progress through with the conversation and whatever the numbers are that come out of the bottom, that translates into $5,000 students or $2,000 clients. That's another way of looking at the. It's the access to that market that otherwise is very expensive to acquire. This is a very cost effective way of acquiring those people.

Victor Beyer: Exactly.

Stuart: Yeah.

Victor Beyer: And at the end of the day, you know, the great part of the best feeling for me is it's literally truly helping people. It's not a fluff, it's just, it's literally, it's. It just. I love it because it's a help. It's finally out there. It's never been done. Here we go, let's talk about it.

Stuart: I think Susan said, well definitely, I love this.

Victor Beyer: Victoria.

Stuart: Yeah, we'll definitely get a link in the show notes because anyone that's, even if they're not interested in tattoo removal, it's an interesting book to get a copy of just to look at the nature of the information that's in there. I would imagine that as no one else has written it already, there's the access to the direct customers that you're talking about, but there's also the access to other people who are writing about it or wanting to create the get the message out there themselves, whether it's through tattoo seminars or medical seminars or people writing news stories. Now that this authoritative piece is out there written by you, I would imagine that it's not too much of a step for you to either orchestrate those conversations or kind of passively get those conversations.

Victor Beyer: No. Yeah. The next probably big push will be obviously a full on press release, probably will probably get picked up by 250 to 350 news agencies. We'll see what Happens. It's definitely an easy, easy play for you guys out there who by writing PR releases done right are fantastic again. They're fantastic because if we go back to domain authority, when you guys release your books, do a PR release, there's certain keywords that are going to get picked up by the press release that are linked to nothing but news outlets. Hence why when your SEO marketing people talk to you and talk to you about press releases, that's why they like doing them. Because they're going after that domain authority. Yeah, because they're nothing but news.

Stuart: Are there many conferences?

Victor Beyer: Any advice?

Stuart: Sorry, Susan. Go for it.

Victor Beyer: Go ahead. No, I was going to switch topics. You go ahead.

Stuart: Yeah, I was just going to carry on that thread for a second and just think, is there any with the industry? So we deal with a lot with financial advisors. We've got quite a big footprint with those guys and some people in the medical space. So those guys are often talking about conferences and speaking engagements where things related to their industry are happening already. Is it the same with you guys? I mean there's a lot of tattoo expos around, but that's more of the inking rather than the removal. On either that side or the medical side are the many speaking opportunities where people are talking about tattoo removal already, but you can now come in with more valuable information.

Victor Beyer: And that's where we get into a tricky part of my, my industry. So I'll take it two parts. As far as the tattoo industry, things have really changed, especially the last 10 years in the tattoo industry. Typically, tattoo artists old school believed once you got a tattoo it was not to be changed or altered. That's what you asked for, that's what you got, that's what you live with for the rest of your life.

Stuart: Right.

Victor Beyer: What is happening now on that side of things is it's become much more recognizable and acceptable to get removal done. Because if we go for a cover up new tattoo on our old tattoo that typically grows by 50 to 100% in size. Now with just a couple of treatments, the client's able to get what they want. As far as new information out there, that side of things does not exist. I'm the guy filling that space. As far as medically, this is where it gets a little dicey. I do a lot of medical conferences speaking typically the physician presenting the material paid through a laser manufacturer, right. To do the presentation on the process and he's typically misinformed. I have sat through so many processes, presentations where they're literally misinformed on how this works and it's embarrassing. So then I have to show up, speak. And that's primarily what I really specialize on the medical circuit. I teach a lot of plastic surgeons, general practitioners. When I speak, I'm generally teaching them about inks. I'm one of the very few people in the world that will educate you what's actually in tattoo inks, which are completely unregulated.

Stuart: Right. That was an interesting. Even having some tattoos myself, it was something I'd never even considered what goes into the inks. And there's some interesting stories about how they're not quite as. Depending on what the opportunity is, you've got to get it in the first place. It could consist of a wide range of things,

Victor Beyer: typically heavy metals, some really bad stuff. So. And Stuart, you're over in England right now?

Stuart: Yeah, yeah, close in the UK at the moment. So the two that I've got were. So the three that I've got were all in the uk.

Victor Beyer: So, you know, in the United States we're completely unregulated. Over in the eu, you guys do have some regulation, but it's, it's just kind of a free, free let it go kind of thing. In the tattoo industry, it is definitely a unique, unique world. But yeah, it's hard to explain to the outside because I'm literally, I don't know anybody else in the world that has to run from a tattoo studio teaching tattoo removal and I'm literally the next day across the country sitting in the operating room teaching a physician, extremely well known plastic surgeon, same process. It is probably one of the most unique things you can do.

Stuart: Susan, I think you were going to talk about the process.

Victor Beyer: Well, I was going to say as a wrap up, this has been so helpful, Victor, but I'd love for you to just share. For anyone listening that's on the fence about doing their book, what are your thoughts or what would you tell them now that you've gone through the process yourselves?

Victor Beyer: So for you guys thinking about going through the process, I'd probably have just very simple checklist. Do pen to paper. Look at those bridges. What bridges? In your business, in your. I don't care what we're doing, we're selling widgets, making moon pies, doing lasers. What bridges, what gaps do you need to fill? Every business has them. You're just not going to get around that. As far as conversation, what does this do for you as far as starting, ending, getting your foot through the door? For me, it accomplishes a lot. So that was a no brainer once you've gone through the paper process and you're like, okay, I highly advise, reach out to these guys, talk with them. The process itself, again, I might be out of the ordinary. I don't know. Anybody else that has gone through personally for me is extremely easy. Literally, guys, so, you know, they'll present you with some options of how you want to go about getting this done. Would you. What. How would you like to time frame? For me, something lands on my plate, I need it off my plate asap because I've got other things to do. So I think that's personally one of the things that made it in my mind very, very easy. I literally lined it up. We did the outline, we did the initial research as far as how we wanted to do it. And you can confirm with me, Susan, I think we knocked this out in start to finish, maybe four weeks, five weeks. It was super fast, guys, as far as time into this, I did not have much time. I think stem to stern, I'd probably put you less than three hours. For me, it was extremely fast and easy.

Victor Beyer: I mean, you look at that amazing.

Stuart: I mean, it really is quality in, quality out. I think it's a testament to how much knowledge and passion you've got for your message. That really came out in the pages as we kind of pulled it all together through the. Through the system.

Victor Beyer: Yeah, but Stuart, I find with 99% of the authors I talk to, they too have that expertise because they live and breathe this. They just don't think they have, you know, they don't know that what they know. They just think is kind of like, everyone knows this.

Stuart: No, actually, we don't know that's true, isn't it? I mean, it's so easy for us to say that the passion came out, but I guess for the people who are thinking, well, that's great for someone else, but what about me? But the. Exactly. You say the amount of people that just gloss over the, the. The fundamentals. I think I might have even used this story on this show before, but I can remember being back in high school, which is far too many years ago now. But there was a guy in my class at school, would come back after every summer vacation and be the expert in something else. Whether it was kind of art one year or mountain bikes the next year or goodness knows what the year after. But the reason was he was an only child. His parents worked back in the uk at that time, there was only kind of four channels on the tv. So that gets old quickly. Over the summer so he would just voraciously devour any information he could get on a new subject and then come back as an expert, certainly compared with everyone else. The reason I say that is anyone entering the subject like tattoo removal, if it's something that you're looking at as someone wanting to be trained or as a consumer or customer thinking about it, particularly where there's a vacuum of information, there's not that much information around, then you just voraciously devouring any information that you can and even things that. Victor, I'm sure thinks that some things are pretty straightforward in the book, but customers reading it for the first time, leading through to the more, the more important stuff. But it's so easy to gloss over the information that you just take for granted because as you say, you live it every day. I think there's a super valuable book in everyone or anyone that's been in business for more than a year or so, even if it's just describing the day to day processes.

Victor Beyer: If you're out in the world helping other people lead better lives in whatever capacity that is, you have a book in you because you have stories that the world needs to hear.

Stuart: Yeah, absolutely. Fantastic. Well, thanks for your time, Victor. We've just gone past the half hour so we'll wrap up. Is there anywhere that where can we point people towards to learn more about what you guys are doing? Whether they're thinking about tattoo removal as a, as an option or as a career, where's a good place for people to find out more about you guys

Victor Beyer: so they can start? On the clinic side, we can find us@rethinktheinc.com on the education side they can look at a laser academy, a like Apple laser lasers with an S not a Z. Academy.com on marketing side. For you guys out there in business really looking to take your marketing, digital marketing to the next level, you can find us at targeted laserseo.com Fantastic.

Stuart: And we'll make sure we put links to all those in the show notes too. Notes for anyone listening is going to be at 90minutebooks.com podcast and this will be episode 048, number 48. Victor, thanks very much for your time. I know we caught you pretty early. Now the book's only just coming out so I think it'll be definitely interesting to get you back over the summer and talk about how that's how that's working out and some of the campaigns that you've put in place. I'm sure anyone listening now will be very interested to see the kind of real life use case of you as getting it out there to the interested people. So if you're up for that, it'll be great to have you back.

Victor Beyer: I appreciate it, guys. Thanks for talking with me today.

Victor Beyer: Hey, Ed, let me know when we're gonna. We're gonna get started on book number two. Victor.

Victor Beyer: Yeah, let me. You guys knew half of what's going on right now.