A great example, 600 leads

"Foreign."

Stuart: Hey everyone, welcome to another book more show. It's Stuart here with Betsy Vaughan. How's it going, Betsy?

Guest: It's fantastic. I'd like to say happy New Year because it's been a while since we've been on here, but we're in February,

Stuart: so do you know, I was thinking that we're about six weeks in. Is it now February 9th? What's that? More than a tenth of the year gone already.

Guest: Oh, wow.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah. I'll tell you what though, February is shaping up to be pretty busy. It's. I think if people have been off in January, then they're making up for lost time now. We're definitely seeing a lot of people starting to plan their year ahead and thinking about reasons for writing a book or deadlines that they've got for needing things in the first kind of three to six months of the year.

Guest: It's true a lot of conversations the last couple of weeks, to use your word. I find my voice getting croaky on a regular basis. So yeah, there's a lot of good conversations. Like you said, people are. It was sort of. Usually we see that in January, but like you said, people were either extended their holiday or were sick. And so we're seeing more of it now in February. So very busy, you know, trying to meet some deadlines and everyone wants to get their book out there now.

Stuart: Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it, planning ahead? I think the. This time of year is always good. People start to think about what's coming up and it's surprising how quickly time goes. So some of the conversations we've been having are around summer, summer shows and expos, People having particular events that they're trying to time things for. I think it's definitely worth taking a moment, anyone listening to think about what's coming up in that kind of. Well, we're now February, it's that kind of May, June, July type thing before the summer break. What steps can you put in place now so that prepared for any events there? We've got an interesting case study that I want to go into in a little bit of detail today because I think a lot of people will get some use out of that to kind of an end to end process that we went through. Right from conceptualizing the book in the first place through to five, almost 600 leads that we've collected over the last couple of weeks in a project that took maybe, I mean, including all of the ads and the testing that we've done, that was maybe nine weeks or so. Maybe a little bit more end to end. So that was a very quick turnaround on a project that's. That's given some great returns. So I won't run into that. And then after that, we're going to talk briefly about the get back to the book blueprint scorecard. So we got as far as mindset number one and two last time, which is selecting the single target audience and dialing in the title. And today we're going to talk about the subheadings or the subtitles on the books and how they can really amplify the message that you're trying to get across. So we'll wrap up in a bit talking about that. Some of the other things that have happened. As we're getting into the new year, we're seeing a number of other programs or other people out there promoting books as either a way to engage their audience or people talking about creating in books themselves. So there's always this conversation, you hear it a lot in the kind of YouTube world about is it too late or has the ship sailed? Is it too difficult to get in? Now, a couple of people have almost raised concerns or on the flip side, raised opportunities, saying that a lot of people in their industry are writing books already and they're starting to see it more and more. So we often talk about this being a. It's a tactic or a strategy that works and it's amplified by the point in time. There's still a extra credibility or cache of having a physically printed book that at some point will go away or lessen because it becomes available to more and more people. But I think we're very, very far away from that still.

Guest: From that? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, I think when I talk to people, I just had a conversation with a gentleman yesterday, and he said, you know, is this really going to add to, like, is it going to make me look like an expert? And I said, well, think. Just stop and think about that. If you meet somebody for the first time or maybe you've heard about somebody and all of a sudden they hand you a book, what are you going to think? And he's like, well, I'm going to think they might know what they're talking about. And I said, exactly. You know, like, some people want to complicate things. We've said that before, but. And he was like, you know, you're exactly right. And I said, it really doesn't matter if you, you know, been in the business, you know, six months, six years, 30 years, you know, if you know what you're talking about and the content's valuable, then people are going to perceive you as, as, yeah, you know, what you're talking about, you know, it's going to add that additional credibility. So, yeah, I do think we're away from that because I think people are still afraid to pull that trigger on a book. You know, the. Do I have the right information? Do I have enough information? People think I know what I'm talking

Stuart: about, you know, yeah, absolutely. And I think that came up briefly when we were talking to Susan and Victor last week talking about the. It's easy to underestimate as the business owner, as the insider. It's easy to underestimate the value of things that seem relatively basic and straightforward to us or to you because you're in it day in, day out. I think if you fall into the trap of trying to write something that's the industry leading tome of a book that covers absolutely everything, you're going to write yourself into a hole or try to write yourself into a hole because you're just trying to do too much. And then the information in there might be too high level, it might not be comprehensive, it might not position you as an expert. But if you're really trying to answer that one or two questions that the most pressing to the audience, you're not trying to sell this book, you're not trying to. Or for most cases we're talking about in terms of kind of lead generating and engaging people rather than making profit from the book itself. So there's not the same expectation that people have got in terms of, in terms of breadth and I'm going to say completeness. But by that I just mean it. People aren't getting a copy of the book to be the complete answer to a whole industry wide issue. They're trying, they're requesting a copy of the book to get an answer to that one question. And.

Guest: Right.

Stuart: That makes it far more easy and compelling for you to be the expert in that area because you're giving as much information as you can trying to be as comprehensive as you can about that one thing. Of course, there's always other things we talk about. The objective is to start the conversation, not to try and convince or kind of beat people into submission in the words on the page, to make the decision to do something else with you. But just answering those questions that are the most pressing in the most comprehensive way is very easy to come across as the expert because to a certain degree you leave people wanting more. You kind of comprehensively answer the amount that you're answering and then leave them wanting more for extra.

Guest: Right, exactly. Extra reading, you know. Yeah. And having that conversation. Sometimes I get approached about by people who, they do have that thought in their head that they have to answer all the questions, you know, and there's a sense of being extremely overwhelmed, like, I can't do that. And when we come in and go, okay, you don't, you don't have to do that. You know, let's focus on two or three things that are the most important that get people excited about it, get engaged about it. Not writing a 200 page business book, you know, that we're going to, you're going to send out. And you can almost hear a sigh of relief when I say that to people, you know, oh, okay, you're right. We're going to focus on, you know, specific audience, specific market with the specific content, you know, and, and, and like you said, we want them to, to come back and ask more, you know, and engage that person a little bit more. So I think sometimes that keeps people from pulling the trigger, you know, that sense of, gosh, it's a lot to do.

Stuart: And again, because, and this is the thing that I think why books are still, it's definitely still not a mainstream thing. It might be the feeling of, I think is it called the Beta Meinhof syndrome where you like, if your friend suddenly gets a white car, you'll see in white cars everywhere. Or if you hear everywhere. Yeah, yeah, hear word for the first time, you're hearing it everywhere. I think the same goes this. Once you start thinking about a book, you then start seeing everyone else's books. Whereas that's the 5% of the population. The other 95% aren't thinking that. They're just thinking on the, on the surface level. They're, they're seeing them as, as readers or recipients of the information, not as people who are thinking about creating it. So I think that's why there's still a power to them. Regardless of, of how you're creating it or where you're creating, still has that authority. I think that's going to be around for, for quite a long time to come.

Guest: I do. Yeah. If you think about like just like when, when having a website first came around, you know, like, oh, do you, so what's your, oh, I don't have a website. Well, in my, in your brain we eventually got trained like if you don't have a website, you can't be a legit business. I mean like everybody has a web. I remember Thinking like, I don't think that's. I don't think I want to work with somebody who doesn't have a website because it was, you know, it's incredible. It was that credibility, you know.

Stuart: It's interesting though even now. So I mean how long were we now? 2018. I think I got my first email address maybe in 95, 96. Holy cow. Okay, that makes me feel old. So that credibility of a company having an email. Even for us, we've still got some of the original versions of the 90 minute book and a number of our contacts from the early stage. Sort of our partners and friends that do some of the referring. We created the first version of the book with the Gmail address on the back and that's still out there. The amount of businesses I see around here, I mean not admittedly relatively small businesses rather than kind of big, certainly not national companies, but the amount of plumbers or builders or local storefronts that have just Gmail accounts as even if they've got their own domain, they've often just got Gmail addresses as the contact us. Sometimes you see it on the, on the wraps, on vans driving around, call us on a cell phone number or email us. I think most people have moved past AOL addresses now but call us, email us at a Gmail account. So it's really surprising those businesses are still viable. Is still bringing in all the leads. So there is a not so much of a perfection problem, but there is a. It's easy to come up with excuses why not to do something because, well, I can't possibly do this until I've got a website or until I've got an email address or until I've got a domain or until I've got all of the book elements in my mind rather than just starting it and moving forward.

Guest: Right, exactly.

Stuart: So talking about moving forward, the thing I wanted to run through before we get to the mindset number three is the listing agent lifestyle book that we wrote over the Christmas break. So this is I think a great example of anyone looking for an example of an end to end successful campaign of having an idea in the first place creating version one of the book which is more than good enough to collect the leads. And those leads then have a way of driving them to a destination where you can collect their names and email addresses and then start a conversation with them. So I wanted to take a couple of minutes just to run through that campaign and this is probably one that you want to go to the show notes for. So show notes for this will be@90minutebooks.com podcast and this is show 49. So 049. In the show notes, I'll make sure we've got some screenshots and some examples of the Facebook campaign that I'm talking about and the book, the Listing Agent Lifestyle book. So head across there and it'll give some context to the things that we're talking about now. So the background for this is we also have. Most people know, I think we also have a coaching side of the business deal a lot with entrepreneurs and realtors, Dean particularly, he's got a big background in helping realtors for 30 years plus now, I think. So we were looking for a way of engaging people in that space, a new audience. We've got quite a big list already, but we're looking for people who haven't necessarily come across us before and therefore don't necessarily haven't had the opportunity to know like and trust us and take it to the next step. The Realtor marketing tool that we have is Gogo Agent. And that tool is a hub for realtors to create their own marketing tools and create successful campaigns in their own right. So for us, in the context of this campaign, the product that we're interested in promoting is Gogo Agent, and that's@gogoagent.com so that's the end product, the beginning of the conversation. We were looking for a way of engaging Realtors. So for this campaign, we're not interested in people from other industries. We have a number of mortgage brokers in that space as well. But that concept of picking a single target market, if we attract mortgage brokers, that's fine. But as far as the outgoing effort goes, this campaign is looking specifically for Realtors. So. So just before Christmas, we recorded a book called the Listing Agent Lifestyle. This is something that Dean's talked about for, I mean, years really in one way or another. But it's really kind of come together and codified around this Listing Agent lifestyle we recently started just before Christmas, probably November sometime, maybe the Listing Agent Lifestyle podcast. So that is a show very similar to the More Cheese, Less Whiskers podcast. If you've heard that Dean talks to or interviews a realtor each week and they talk about applying the Listing Agent Lifestyle mindsets to their business and how they can take those mindsets and then accelerate their results to create a more balanced, balanced life. So a number of episodes in We've got the mindsets, the eight stages of that not really program, but that approach dialed in already. So the listing Agent Lifestyle book, very similar to the book Blueprint Scorecard and the Profit Activator Scorecard or the Breakthrough DNA book, all of which I'll link in the show notes as well. So go grab a copy of those. But all of those books are talking around a particular eight step framework, very similar to what Strategic Coach do. Strategic Coach have their scorecard tool set up or they teach scorecards in their business. A way of getting people to think about their. The way their customers interact with them in across eight mindsets and four stages across each of those mindsets. So the Listing Agent Lifestyle book was created by Dean talking through each of those mindsets. So we often talk about the. The outline as being the key thing that takes someone from the promise of the title through to the call to action on the back cover. That kind of logical journey through a particular subject matter. So whether it's eight mindsets or whether it's one particular thing within your business or industry, that's. That's very pressing to the client. Having that context of kind of a narrative of the story, a kind of scene setting, the kind of description of the problem, the resolution and then the reminding people of what the problem was and how to get a fixer resolution. Having that kind of thread going throughout taking people from the front cover to the back cover is really. Excuse me, is really the way that you should think about writing anything. But doesn't it. We're not talking about creating a story, we're not talking about creating a work of fiction. This is literally just having a logical order to taking people all the way through from the beginning to the end. The eight mindsets of the Listing Agent Lifestyle. Super straightforward way of getting that understanding for the realtors. So with me so far?

Guest: Yeah, I'm. I'm with you so far. So this book went out in November. Is that what. No, just went out, right?

Stuart: Yeah, just went out. So the podcast started in November. We probably had. We've just released today actually as we record this. We just pushed episode 12 out so 12 weeks back from today. So yeah, the podcast started in November. That was about the time that the mindsets were really kind of brought together in a cohesive way underneath one particular framework. The principles generally are ones that Dean's taught for many years. So again, this is another classic example of someone really understanding their craft and being able to pull those, pull those elements together that are engaging for the audience, that kind of introduces them to the subject, pulling it together into something under, under one label, under one banner.

Guest: Go ahead.

Stuart: I was just going to say so the podcast started 12 weeks ago, back from today. The book we recorded in December, in early December, used exactly the same process that we do that we do for the 90 minute books. In fact, I'm trying to think how, how exactly this came about. So it was slightly different in the sense that Dean didn't need to talk to Susan about creating it because it was already. I mean this is like an internal project. So we've kind of got that bit down already. So this was the very first episode of the, of the podcast. The episode that kind of positioned what the Listing Agent Lifestyle was all about. It was the. That was recorded in a way that we knew was going to get turned into a book. So we had the structure to it and it was that that was taken and then edited. Turned into the book. We had it finished just after Christmas. I'm just trying to think of the timeline finished just after Christmas because we were doing some edit and layout over the Christmas break. The design was relatively straightforward. The call to action on the back because this is a very targeted book. It's targeted at realtors. It's talking about the listing agent lifestyle. The listing agent lifestyle is kind of realized within the Gogo agent community. So the call to action on the back is super straightforward. Just reminding people of what the eight mindsets are. And then here's what to do next. Join the community of realtors focused on creating a listing agent lifestyle@gogoagent.com so it's just pointing people in that direction. So able to create a very targeted book. Knowing exactly who the audience was. The content leads people from the COVID to the call to action. It introduces the topic. People listen back to the book titles workshop that we did towards the middle to end of last year. One of the book title types we talked about was introducing a new idea and positioning a new idea so this book falls into that category. And then the Facebook ad that we ran or ads that we ran to target realtors that might be interested in the subject would be interested in a book called the Listing Agent Lifestyle and would ultimately be interested in Go Go Agents as a platform. Go Go Agent as a platform. Rather we created a Facebook a set of Facebook ads that targeted those people directly. So as part of the 90 Minute Book program, we create some design assets for people so images of the books that they can use in social media. We took one of those image and ran a Facebook lead ad campaign which just had a little bit of copy saying new book, Listing Agent Lifestyle. The future of real estate is better than you think click to download, and then the heading text at the bottom just says free book download, and a big button that said download. So a Facebook lead ad, for those that don't know, is an ad in Facebook's platform that connected with the user's account. So rather than sending them out to a landing page and asking them to enter their name and email address, they click download and then confirm. And the Facebook details that are already in the system are passed through as a lead. So it removes one step of friction. You're not then having to drive traffic to a landing page and then having the landing page to convert. It just kind of squishes those two bits together. The conversion's done as soon as the buttons press. The groups that we ran it to were two groups. Well, we actually ran it to three, but the. The third, we killed one of the ads because it was less effective, but we targeted people who were employed by real estate companies. So in their Facebook profile, had those companies listed as an employer. And we also ran it to people who had specific job titles. So their job titles and their profiles were realtors and words associated with that. The campaign that we killed, because it wasn't converting, and it's not to say that it wouldn't have converted, but the others were definitely outperforming. It was where people had expressed an interest in real estate. So on this particular campaign, that wasn't effective. But for anyone else listening to this might well be worth trying that demographic as well. So those have run for. They've been running for about two and a half weeks now. I think on that, we've collected just under 600 leads. So in the space of. Pretty impressive, right? And the average. Yeah, I think the average cost per lead was maybe about $2. And even that is. It started much lower than that. It's just crept up a little bit towards the end of the campaign. So let's recap.

Guest: That's great. Through all that, I was waiting for that. Like, how many. How many leads?

Stuart: Right. Yeah.

Guest: Sitting on my hands. Okay. I want to know how many leads. That's pretty impressive.

Stuart: Yeah. In those leads, then we've captured all of those leads. And the whole point of capturing leads from our perspective is to start the conversation. So we've given them a copy of the book, the thing that they've requested in the first place. They then go into a campaign that follows up with them the following day and sends them an email saying, actually, I think it's two days later, but saying, have you tried GoGo clients yet? A Short personal looking email that expects a reply. And then in addition to that, they also go onto the main broadcast sequence. And then weekly we're sending them a copy of the Listing Agent lifestyle podcast. So separate from any other interaction that we're having individually, separate from any other individual specific broadcast that we send out, that someone who's a targeted client specifically interested in, specifically the thing we're talking about has raised their hand and got something of value straight away, has got an email from us short, personally expecting a reply to engage conversation. And the response, I don't have the numbers in front of me because I'm not in that mailbox, but the numbers to those responses, just like we see on the 90 minute book side as well, the response rate to those short personally expecting reply email is way higher than just a generic email that goes out. But even if people don't respond to that, they're then on a regular sequence so that they're getting the opportunity to listen to the Listing Agent Lifestyle podcast. And we were talking just offline a few minutes ago about people not necessarily being ready today, but are ready six months down the track. That makes sure that we're able to stay in contact with people and build that relationship and that rapport over time.

Guest: Yeah, exactly. I think that's, you know, it's amazing to see how it all starts. You know, we see it because it's, we're in it every day. But to someone who's not familiar with Facebook campaigns and how all of it works and then the upkeep of it, you know, like I said, I'm that anxious person that I have that sense of urgency right here, right now. And thankfully I'm surrounded by people who are not like that with you and Dean, so. So it is nice. You know, we sort of stroke that relationship and they get a lot of valuable information and then, oh, they're sort of. Then I have that sense of excitement like somebody's converted after six months of, or eight months or whatever. And, you know, it's done its job, you know, even though it may not be what Betsy wants at the moment. So. But it's nice to see that we

Stuart: were saying, oh, we pushed out recently the five book titles report. And as I was writing that based on the book titles podcast workshop that Dean did originally, some of the things that I was adding into that was bringing in some of the other elements that we teach elsewhere. So that point that it's the minority of people who are ready to convert today, the majority of them are ready to convert later. So the job of work of the book is to get people to raise their hand and start that conversation. It's not necessarily to do the conversion. So it'll be interesting over time to see how many of these 600 leads in this particular campaign convert into either trial accounts for Gogo Agent or then paying accounts for Gogo Agent or even because we track the source of these people. So these are 600 new people that we didn't have a relationship before. So we see this on the coaching side of the business. People will convert and join projects and programs years and years after they originally opted into a list for a small report or whatever we were offering at the time. So I think the key takeaway that I wanted to get across to people listening for this particular campaign is just the speed at which it turned around, the simplicity around it, and the fact that we didn't let. I'm sure there were things in that book that can be tweaked and updated later and we might drop one of the mindsets and add another one or add some clarity to it or whatever it is. Those 600 leads wouldn't have been captured if we just said, yeah, you know what, I really need to do that. I'll do that in the new year. I just need to get all of my ducks in a row. It's right. Getting the thing.

Guest: Pull the trigger.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Getting the thing out there turned it around very quickly and collected all of those leads and gave us the opportunity to start that conversation that we wouldn't have been able to do otherwise. Just on the. Whether it's Facebook ads, sometimes scary people as well, and we talk about it a lot because we use them a lot. But whatever that traffic sources is almost irrelevant. I mean pick whatever is the most use for you. Whether it was Facebook ads or whether it's Google AdWords or whether it's an ad in a local newspaper, community newspaper, or whether it's an industry specific. In the going back to the yacht example, we've run ads before in yacht magazines and pulled leads from that. I've worked with osteopaths across here in the UK where we've run ads in golf magazines. I know Dean's run a lot of ads and in fact some of the current campaigns in the realtor space for a different project are running in. I forget what the name of the magazine is. Homes and Land.

Guest: Oh yeah, over here. Yeah.

Stuart: So whether it's print or whether it's even talking at Jim Hacking's a good friend immigration attorney, has written a Couple of books with us. He's got a particular service that's hugely effective in really changing people's lives. He's got the opportunity to speak at community groups, so immigration attorney, obviously working with immigrant communities. So he's got the opportunity to speak in a lot of those places and uses the book in those environments to either give to people there and give something that they can take away or give people the opportunity to refer the book to others. Because it's a nice non committal low barrier to entry way of people becoming aware of this particular solution. So regardless of what that traffic source is, again, I don't want that to be an excuse for people saying, well, that would be fantastic. But I don't know anything about Facebook ads. Okay. Either find someone that does or forget about Facebook ads. Find another source.

Guest: Another source. Yeah, Very good. Okay.

Stuart: Okay. So I also wanted to run through Quickly Profit Today Profit One Program, the book Blueprint Mindset Number three. So we're getting pushed for time. We've just gone past half an hour. But I want to quickly go through it. Otherwise we'll. We won't get. We won't get around to it for a while. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because we've got a couple of other shows coming up as well with. With some of the people. So it'll be a little while. Let me just jump into, run through this. So, okay, the book Blueprint Mindsets, the book Blueprint Scorecard as we said in the previous shows, talking about it. And again, I'll link those in. The show notes are really a way of you positioning where you are across the eight mindsets that lead to a fantastic book. So we've already talked about selecting a single target market. We've already talked about picking a title that amplifies the. That resonates with the people and really builds on. Gets them to raise their hand and say, I want that. So we're going to look briefly today at the subheading and creating an amplifying subheading. So oftentimes people come to this from the point of view of wanting to. Have you ever heard of the term keyword stuffing? It was like an old search engine optimization SEO term. So the theory is stick as many words as possible in there and hopefully they'll resonate with more people. It's a very brute force way of doing something. Sometimes people will think of the subheading as that they'll try and use it to bring on other elements that they weren't able to get into the title or they'll try and stuff in more words in the hope that someone will read it and not resonate with the title, but resonate with a word buried in the subheadings somewhere. That's definitely one tactic or one technique. But a better way of thinking about it is to think about a subheading that amplifies the title. So rather than adding more, it builds on whatever's there in the first place. So the, the Listing Agent lifestyle subheading on the books that we've created, there is the title Listing Agent Lifestyle and the subheading the future of real estate is better than you think. So those words amplify the title. It's not like the Listing Agent lifestyle and how you can find all of the, all of the sellers and buyers you need, or it's not talking about how to use technology to streamline your, your real estate business. It's just amplifying the, the message, the feeling that the title kind of establishes in the first place.

Guest: So you have a book like I'm, I happen to be looking at some of our titles. You know, you have a book like Retirement Planning that that book is pretty self explanatory. You know, I would to a certain degree as to what the book is about. There, you know, there's a sub, there's a sub, you know, title there involved. But like you take a book like Edge with a football player, there's, I mean if that was just the tie that was it, you'd have zero clue, you know, about what this, this book is, you know, but then of course it goes on to say how to make it into your 2017 fantasy football league playoffs. Which for some reason I keep this drawn to this book. But. And I don't know, I don't know.

Stuart: Nothing to do with the buff looking football player on the COVID Exactly.

Guest: Yeah. So, but you know, you know, you think about the thinking about that, you know, subheading, you know, you know, it really is how important it can be to.

Stuart: Yeah, and this is a good point because people often. I was talking about this yesterday with someone and they were talking about a technique that we've described and we're getting hung up on the specifics of the technique. So this is, I think in one of the shows before I've talked about the difference between strategy versus technique. And the strategy is the thing you want to concentrate on because the techniques change all the time. I mean, at the highest level, the strategy that we talk about in the, the book business is really about engaging customers. The tactic or the technique at the moment is to write a book, but in 100 years time, who knows what it will be? The strategy will still be the same. Engaging people in a way that resonates and make it easy for them to start the relationship with you. But whether or not that's a book might be completely different. So the same here we're talking about creating a subheading that amplifies the title. But you've just hit on a perfect example of where the title isn't necessarily. It's one of those titles that isn't. It isn't explanatory as a standalone title. It needs a subheading. It needs a subheading that goes into more detail in order to make the whole thing work. So it is a good point that we're talking about this having an amplifying subheading in a way that doesn't add more words to the title, it just makes the title resonate even more. That's fine up until the point that UTIL doesn't work when it stands alone by itself. It needs a subtitle to support it. And that's perfectly fine as well. It again referred people back to the five book titles, either the workshop or the guide that we wrote, the field guide, and that goes into some more detail about those different types of titles. The retirement planning book. I'm not sure exactly which one it is, but the. Without having seen it, the subheading and amplifying sub heading there would really talk about a reassuring, a secure, relaxing retirement, rather than adding in extra words about whether it's a 401k or this particular.

Guest: Yeah, have a plan so you can live your life, you know.

Stuart: Right, yeah, so you can live your life. So that kind of building on the. The title that resonates the feeling that resonates with the person that reads it. I was just looking at one of the other ones in trying to go to the other end of the spectrum. So we have a book called Process Triage which is really aimed at kind of the operation side of business. So not really a touchy feely title at all, but a subheading of how to build a repeatable, sustainable and scalable process in your business. Those elements build on a title which isn't the most self explanatory. I mean it's. I think within the industry it makes sense. But those words amplify the words that are in the title. It doesn't try and add in or bring in a different element. So. So just quickly looking at the stages on the mindset itself. So at the Lower end of the spectrum. It's something that hasn't really considered a subheading at all for the book. And it's not that they've chosen not to have one, which as well might be a valid choice. It's just they haven't considered it at all. The kind of middle, low to middle end of the spectrum would be they have a subtitle that talks more about you versus them or talk, tries to bring in the. It changes the focus. So we spend a lot of time talking about titles and do a lot of work with people about titles, making sure that resonates with the, with the reader. But oftentimes or not oftentimes, sometimes, fortunately it's not often, but sometimes people will try then and use the rest of the COVID to amplify their own to try and reinforce that, establishing them as an expert. So this might be the. Kind of resonate with the people who are concerned that their book isn't going to establish them as an expert. They try and kind of stamp it on the front and kind of push it in people's face, but it's. It's too on the nose. The next level up, then the kind of above. Above the kind of 60 to 80% kind of range on the, on the scorecard would be a subheading that is descriptive, but it doesn't amplify either the challenge or the problem that's in the, in the title. So that's really where we just landed, where we were just talking about not so much adding more words, but adding the words that amplify the thing that's already got them to raise their hand. And then the last element where you, you really kind of have this particular mindset dialed in is you've got a strong subtitle that builds on the promise of the title and it amplifies the benefits and the outcome that they'll experience. So really taking the seed of the idea that got into the raise their hand in the first place and pulling the levers a little bit to get that emotional engagement and to almost hint at the promise of the solution at the end of it. So.

Guest: Right. So I'm. I have like fit money in front of me.

Stuart: Do you know, I was looking at that one as well.

Guest: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So fit Money, you know, and then you're like, oh, what's this about? You know, fit money. Oh, seven steps to get your financial life in shape.

Stuart: Boom.

Guest: It's, you know, it's. It prom. It's exactly what it is. You have that mental picture of you know, the whole fitness aspect, but it's. We're talking about financial here, and it says what. What it's going to do.

Stuart: Yeah. I think that is an example of something super straightforward that amplifies the title. It reinforces the. It reinforces the. The health and fitness element of it. So anyone that Julia's looking at, I think she already knows that that's who she resonates with. So she knows that that's the audience. So the title catches their attention. The get your finances in shape kind of reinforces it. And the seven steps just gives that hint of, okay, this is a straightforward process. It's the easy thing to do. It kind of gives a sense of reassurance and amplifies that title of fit money again.

Guest: Yeah, that's a good example. When you really get in here and start looking at some of these, some, you know, some of our titles that we have, and they're pretty good. When you look at the, you know, some. I mean, some of the things like the 2007 Guide to Maximizing your Social Security, you know, there is a subtitle there, but that. That title alone, I think can say, you know, says exactly what it's gonna. Gonna be, what it's gonna do. Yeah.

Stuart: Looking down the list, I mean, that's looking down the galleries. So for anyone that hasn't been there, we're looking at. If you head over to 90minutebooks.com gallery, we keep a gallery of a lot of the titles that we've put out just so people can see and get some ideas. I think for all of these, at the end of the day, it comes down to the individual choice. Will the customers always fight for want of a better term? So some of these, or all of these, rather, have been considered with the customer and they've gone with. Because they. People know their market best. We give advice and guidance, but people know their market best. Some of the ones that have titles or subheadings that fall outside of what we're suggesting now is the optimum way of going. It might be that we've talked to all of these people and they have a particularly different use case. So it's. There's never one answer to things necessarily want people to look at this for the exceptions and then think that the exception is wrong or problematic. It's quite often the case just that it's being used in a slightly different way.

Guest: Yeah, exactly. Wow.

Stuart: I've got the screen up in front of me now going through them all. It's quite. It is quite an impressive list. It's easy to get distracted in the middle of the podcast list looking at,

Guest: you know what, that's what I was doing. I was like, oh, I forgot about that. Oh, that's a great one. You know, so yeah, I was doing, I was, I was doing that. So it's not, you know, people always. Either people come to us with either their title and their subtitle or they don't. And, and it's either they're completely know exactly what it is or they have zero clue what they want to call this book. You know, so it's kind of fun just to have those conversations and see some of those through the process the title appear and the subtitle, you know, appear. So

Stuart: I think it's because the, the COVID itself sticks out. But there's one was written by Bike and Amanda Hinman called the Vibrant Child. So probably and just on this example as well, but that's the Vibrant Child. Seven steps to increase your child's health and happiness. Health and happiness as an amplifier to vibrant in the title is just the perfect. I think that's really one of the perfect examples of what we're talking about. It's not trying to add in other things. It's not trying to give the technical elements of the solution. It's giving people the promise that there's just seven steps, that's all you need and that it does something to improve their health and happiness, which is an amplifier amplifying words to vibrant, which is the one that's the word that caught the attention in the first place in the, in the title. Absolutely fantastic. Okay, right. We have minutes, 45 minutes. So.

Guest: So I think the listeners have come to, to understand it's going to happen. They really should take part in our just daily conversations and we realize we're an hour and a half into it.

Stuart: Well, if anyone does want to join in the conversation and you do have questions, then definitely reach out to us if you've got any. My phone's going burn me a second. I usually put on mute, but I forgot today. Yeah, either that or I said to someone, oh don't worry, I'm going to give me half an hour and then it's 45 minutes later. Yeah, I was just going to say if anyone does want to join the conversation there on have any ideas for the shows, then definitely shoot us an email to podcast at 90 Minute Books. We're always interested to hear people's feedback. If you've got any questions specific about your book and you just want to reach out to us. Just shoot us a message to support at 90 Minute Books and we'll be more than happy to answer any questions that you've got there. Show notes for this episode are going to be@90minutebooks.com podcast and this is episode 49049. I'll make sure we've got got we've talked about a lot in this show, so I'll make sure we've got good links to everything we've talked about in there. And really we've given the example of the listing agent lifestyle book and how quickly that was turned around from the conversations that we're having. I know people have got a lot on this year and there's, there's a lot of, a lot of great plans people have got. So just head over to 90minutebooks.com forward/, get started and, and really just jump in and we can have your book out there in the next, well before the beginning of the summer.

Guest: Yeah.

Stuart: Okay.

Guest: Very good.

Stuart: Thanks again for your time, Betsy. It's, it's been great pleasure and we'll catch up in the next couple of weeks.

Guest: Sounds good. Thanks.

Stuart: Thanks, guys. Bye.