A MVC Call to Action

Stuart: Foreign. Welcome back to another episode of the book More Show. It's Stuart here with Betsy Vaughan. Betsy, how are you doing?

Guest: I'm very good. Happy Friday, Stuart.

Stuart: Happy Friday. We were just saying before we started recording, it feels a little bit more like a Monday than a Friday.

Guest: It really does. So how's the weather over there?

Stuart: So I am down Lucy's parents. Lucy came over and landed yesterday, so we're visiting family today. So on a bit of a mobile recording setup at the moment we're down just north of London and it's actually pretty glorious, blue skies. So it's a pleasant change.

Guest: Very good. Yes. We were talking here, it's gotten up into the 80s, like high 80s yesterday. And I just don't think. Yeah, I'm not prepared for that in February.

Stuart: So. On the real estate side of the business, we've got the Gogo Academy next week at the end of next week. So you've got a load of real estate heading down for that. So I think they're going to be bringing notepads and bathing costumes.

Guest: Right.

Stuart: Although hopefully not for the meeting room, save it for the pool afterwards.

Guest: Right, Very good. Well, good weekend with Lucy.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah, looking forward to it. Sort of visiting friends and family this weekend and then back up to mine next week and then actually send them back out at the end of next week. So should be a good week. Super perfect.

Guest: All right. What were you going to talk about today?

Stuart: Yeah, today we're going to follow up on the breakthrough. I've got that on my mind. We follow up on the book Blueprint scorecard and head into some of the. Some of the things that moves away from kind of the front cover. One of the. I just wanted to quickly follow up on with last week's show. We were talking about the listing Agent Lifestyle book and its subheading as a. As an amplifier. We talked about that campaign that we'd set up. Also in the week was doing a webinar for some of the Piranha Marketing guys, their ELF coaching group, which is kind of like their online coaching group plus and the 25k group, which is the. Where those guys fit can meet up. So doing a webinar for those guys, talking about book campaigns and again, use the listing agent Lifestyle One as the example. We were talking about the leads that were generated from that. So the campaign started on the 28th of January. We're now recording from what's today? The 16th of February. So I think I recorded about the 14th, so a bit over two weeks in. And that campaign's pulled now about 1200 leads which just as an example of how effective as an opt in it is, these are coming from Facebook ads. I think we dived into the details a little bit afterwards. So as listening to this, if you haven't checked out last week's show which is episode 49, head back to that because we begin the first 10, 15 minutes or so by talking specifically about that listing agent lifestyle campaign. So I mean there's lots of examples we've got internally going back over the last couple of years and then externally obviously with all of the guys that we're helping to write books. But just to be able to see that campaign start to finish. It really is a great example of having the idea, the seed of the book which really resonates with the audience writing something that's specific and useful, a Facebook lead ad that it's demographically targeted. In this case it's at realtors. So finding people who work for or have a connection with those real estate companies offering the book as the opt in which again remember back to last week or check out last week's show notes where we show the actual ad copy. So all it is is offering a copy of the book and then people request it, no further action needed. They get the copy of the book, we know who they are, they've raised their hand and now obviously continue that conversation with them by email and putting them into the broadcast message list. So they're regularly getting communications from us and we're regularly giving them opportunity to raise their hand and take the next step to go really from concept just before Christmas to get an executed and created over the Christmas holiday into the first week or two of the new year to get the Facebook ad campaigns up and refined slightly to then pull 1200 leads and as we go in the turnaround or the conversion rate of those people into customers for the go go agent tool that we've got and this is the first time that we're doing ads like this. Historically we've pull people from existing lists that we've got. So it'll be interesting to see what sort of conversion we get on those and the time in which it takes people to convert and then we'll feedback over the next shows kind of later on in the year just to kind of close that loop a little bit. But as far as we've said a number of times before and obviously earlier as we were looking at the profit book break through scorecard, keep mixing up the name of our books, we were saying that the job of Work is to get people to raise their hand. And this has been effective to the tune of, well, just under a couple of days ago, but now just over 1200 people, so. Super interesting.

Guest: That's fantastic.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah.

Guest: I'm excited to see the conversion rate as well. Like you said, how long it's going to take to. For them to convert, you know. Yeah, but that's great. Yeah, those are great numbers.

Stuart: We talk so kind of hypothetically about things or talk in the round because obviously everyone's situation is different. But I think it's really useful to, like, we have the interviews in the podcast series with the authors, people that we've written with. It's interesting to see that from a practical execution point of view. I think it's really interesting to see these numbers and how this, to see the campaign set up and how it was all brought together because hopefully as you're listening to this, people are getting ideas of what they can do and obviously change the industry to their own. But hopefully just adds a bit of fuel to the fire and gives people some more examples to show how simple and straightforward it can be and, and just encourage people to get it done.

Guest: Right, right, Very good.

Stuart: Perfect. Okay, so this week we're going to dive into mindset number four of eight. And mindset number four then starts moving on to look at a minimum viable commitment. Call to action. So 5.

Guest: Mindset 5.

Stuart: Mindset 4. No, I can paint. 1, 2, 3, 4.

Guest: Yeah, 4. Okay.

Stuart: Looking at the same list.

Guest: I don't know. Oh, yeah, you know, I see where it is. You know, I'll explain to you later what, what I'm looking at. I don't know why I did that. Okay, I see it. Yeah, I'm having technical, some, you know, technology issues here today, and things are just up and it's. I don't know how something shifts on, on this table in front of me, but it sure did because it says five, a minimal viable commitment. Call to action. It says that.

Stuart: So, yeah, we started off by saying that this is Friday, the fifth day of the week, but it seems like Monday, the first day of the week. So let's just put it down. It needs to get to the end of the day quick.

Guest: I apologize for that.

Stuart: That's okay. Question myself. Interesting enough, I was thinking as you were saying it, I just, as I'm talking, I'm kind of on a mobile recording rig now, so rather than at my computer with a kind of static mic in front of the screens as I usually am, I kind of have headphones on so I'm walking around as I'm talking. So I'd wandered away from the screen and just like to say, okay, let's get on with talk about the next mindset. I had to walk back because as we'll go into in a second four and five, if we look at them in a logical order, it's going from kind of the front of the book to the back, or as most people start thinking about starting the process towards finishing it. This mindset number four, start with a. It almost falls into the category of start with the end in mind. So we've jumped the last few weeks of talking about the COVID The before reading parts logically you'd think about then going into mindset number five, which is a purposeful outline. So we'll talk about that next time. But you might think about the internal and then the back cover. You tend to think of the back cover being the last thing that you're in. But really the way you need to think about it is, as I just mentioned before, start with the end in mind so that you know where you're leading to. So that's why we have it ordered in. This way we go from the title, picking the single target market, the audience that you're talking to, then picking the title and the subheading because you need to know what question you're answering enough that will resonate with them the most. So rather than just start writing because you know some stuff and then hopefully a headline will come from it, start with that headline and the same with the back cover copy. You need to know what the call to action is, where you're leading people towards, so that then in the next stage we can start thinking about the content. So cover where they're starting back of a copy, where you're leading them to what you want them to do, and then think about the content and how you kind of get from A to Z in that perspective. So it's interesting, you happen to kind of reflect the thought that was happening as well when I just went, had to go back and double check. So that kind of, you know, it's

Guest: interesting, people come out, come in and come on board and have questions and they, they all, they're, they're consumed by the content. And I always try to say that like to start with the end in mind, let's talk about what your goal is, then that call to action. Oh, no, no, I just need to tell you what I'm going to put in the book and I'm like, and this is legit a conversation I probably have at least once a week with someone, I'll say, well, let's think about what your ultimate goal is. You know, let's think backwards, if you will, you know, so good reminder. It's a nice way to think about things and kind of, it really does help when you think about like, okay, oh, my call to action is I want them to, you know, come to my website and take this assessment or I want them to reach out to me, you know, whatever.

Stuart: It's almost like thinking about sort of as we get finished recording here, in a little while we're heading out from Lucy's parents down to a friend in London. So it's almost like saying, hey, I really need to show you how well I can drive. Come and let jump in and talk about the driving rather than thinking, okay, well where are we going and what direction do we need to do? And then I'll share while I'm driving. As we're going along, it's really thinking, not the, the whole exercise of this is to encourage an outcome. The whole exercise isn't to write a book. We're not talking about fiction, we're not talking about the book being the product. It really is all about orchestrating that journey through to a customer by creating a relationship and giving some value and then evidencing for people the things they need to know in order to make the decision to take that step. So the call to action, the thing that you're leading people towards is kind of evidenced in two places. The most obvious is the back cover because that's the second to the front cover. The back cover is the next page that gets read the most. So 100% of the front cover or 100% off front covers get read because that's obviously the thing that people get pick up or it's the thing that people see in order to know that they want it. The back cover copy, particularly for physical books, slightly more so than for digital books, but and Kindle ones especially because in fact, very few back covers get read in Kindle because no one ever makes it past the end of the content. But from a physical walk, pick the copy up, turn it over in your hands, look at the back cover and then kind of click through and a decreasing number of the pages in the middle get read. So the back cover as a tool, as a thing to really put your stake in the claim, stick in the claim. Putting the stake in the ground about what you want people to do next is important because it kind of not only is it the one page that gets read the most, but it's kind of guiding the whole whatever you're writing, it's leading people towards that call to action. So it kind of gives you a little bit of scope constraint as far as the writing goes. So it helps a lot of people, as we've said in the past, get stuck in kind of writing themselves into a hole. Because with no clear direction, lots of words start getting spewed out. And without some constraints around it, it's very difficult to keep those focused. Like, back cover copy is super important for you thinking about writing the book, but it's also important from the perspective of the reader and where it's guiding them to the other place. That message, that back cover copy is kind of exposed is the last chapter of the book. The kind of here's what to do next as people are going through the content. It's just those words kind of in the narrative, in the on the page that lead to the same outcomes. So one of the things to think about is as you're leading people through the content, starting with a problem or thing that you want to share with them, leading through the answers towards the end of the book. That end needs to be the next steps. And the next steps really need to be the opportunity for people to learn more. So as you listen to this and think about, okay, what is the call to action? It's easy for people to think about. The call to action is just, well, what I really want them to do is just call me for an appointment or come in for an assessment. So the mindset is a minimum viable call to action. It's thinking about what the smallest thing is that they can do to progress the conversation, both in terms of you being aware of them so you know which people are hotter than others, and also them being able to kind of develop that thought and their thinking or their understanding without jumping straight on them and trying to convert them immediately. We've said in a lot of the shows before that the job of the book is just to start the conversation and identify them. It's not to convince them or try and convert them on the spot, that's super unlikely, but giving them enough information so that it answers. I keep using the example of using answering one question very deeply, but also giving them an opportunity to here's where you can go to find out more, or to the next step in the process, or the next thing you need to know, or now you know this, here's how you can expand and go even deeper on that knowledge. Kind of in a different environment, in a different form. Just helping them really develop that, develop their understanding. And by developing their understanding, in theory, they'll start to understand that they may well need help and support with this, or as they develop, they need further help and support and then present in ways that you can fill that need. Makes sense so far.

Guest: Yes, it makes sense. It does. I'm just looking. I think about people, like, who say, oh, well, I don't, I don't have a call to action. And like, how do you expect someone to get in touch with you? You know, like that is. Yeah, they don't have. I mean, you have a telephone so that we could, we can use that. But I'm very surprised by the amount of people who don't have, you know, like a website in 2018, you know. Oh, no, no. You know, some smaller businesses just starting out kind of thing that haven't done that. So there's no place to, to reach. And so I always say, people, okay, we got to create something, either an email address or some way for people to get in touch with you. Otherwise I think this, you know, when you're doing a book, someone doesn't know how to get in touch. You're defeating the purpose. There's no, Nobody can raise their hand. You're not giving anybody that option to do that. You know, but on the flip side of that, is there too much? And I look at some of the books that we do in some of our back cover and people, you know, give the three steps, but sometimes in those three steps there's multiple steps. Exactly.

Stuart: Yeah.

Guest: You think, okay, is it, Is it, Are we offering too much at that point? You know, yeah, you can call me. Yes. You can email me, you can go to my website, you can download, you know, this free book or you can, you know, take this assessment or whatever. So in some ways, is it too much?

Stuart: You know, And I think, yeah, and I think all of those elements on both sides of the spectrum come from not putting enough thought around the kind of the execution and the funnel and the job of work of what you're trying to do. So I think on the one hand, where people have nothing or very little, the risk there is that all this effort to collect the leads goes to waste. Because if you're unable to talk to them, if they're unable to express a further interest, then what you're hoping to do is the job to do some conversion. And the book being so compelling, your writing being so persuasive that the readers only saw is that I desperately need to think, to talk to this person and I'll do whatever it takes in order to get them now said slightly sarcastically, but, but that, that expectation that, okay, I need to do something, I need to write a book. Everyone's talking about writing a book. I need to know, I know, I know I need to do it, therefore now I've written something, thank God for that. It can now go and do its job, but without thinking about it in an orchestrated way, about where it fits and how people, how the readers can kind of receive it and then have the opportunity to do something. It's like you said, it's a little bit of wasted effort because unless they are that super, that group, that super converted, super charged to do something now, then it's kind of wasted effort because those other people, which are probably the 90% of people, the 80% of people on day one, those people are just going to vanish into the background. So setting it up, thinking about what the next step is, what the best likely outcome is. Dean talks a lot about when he's writing copy and thinks about if the person kind of was in the room in front of him. And he has a great knack of being able to write in a way that resonates or talks to one person rather than my natural tendency is to, if you like, with the corporate background, it's more to write in a caveating contract based permission with lots of it depends and caveats and what if in it, which really doesn't resonate anywhere near as well. But taking Dean's approach, thinking about your book, rather than thinking about a book that's going to get broadcast to many people, think about that one reader that receives it. And if that one person was reading the back cover copy and knowing that that one person came to it from a campaign loosely targeting at the kind of knowledge end of your funnel. So you've got one customer, they were interested in the subject that you were writing about, so they wanted to know information on that. That information is probably relatively basic or I don't want to say simple, but it's the introduction to that conversation. You're not going to dump everything on them in the pages. So now you know that they've read that, what would you most like them to do next? What's the most logical next step for them? It's not, here are 50 different things you could do or 50 different things you should do. They may need 50 different things by the end of the process. But the trick isn't to try and dump all of that at once. It's just that one thing that they can do next. So the mindset is the minimum viable commitment call to action. So what's the smallest thing that they can do to keep expressing themselves as an interested person, to keep moving that conversation one step forward, one step forward, not trying to jump them straight to the end? I think the risk people have in trying to include too much is it comes back to that scarcity thing of I'm trying to provide everything. Because there might be one person might resonate here and one person might resonate there and another resonate somewhere else. So that's either an issue with again, not thinking about the funnel enough and thinking about what that one next step is for most reasons, or it might be a symptom of trying to write a book that's too broad. So if you are trying to Write and cover 10 different things, then it might well make sense that you need 10 different call to actions because they might be that separate. But again, that's not the way we suggest writing. The suggestion there would be write 10 different books or write the one book that introduces it all and then through email, through further conversation, or as they develop the relationship, give them opportunity to the other nine things that people are interested in. Very good.

Guest: Thank you for that.

Stuart: Taking that. Yeah. I think those two sides of the fence, I think for people who have got almost the. The people who've got too much on there, that's almost easier to dial people back in because they're trying to do too many things or they're just not. Haven't quite thought about it enough to think about what that one step is. I think for the people who have nothing or say they have nothing, that's a bit more of a not challenging conversation. But that takes a little bit more thinking and dialing in. Because part of the trick in setting up a funnel or a touchpoint campaign or the way that you resonate with people is thinking about it like a chess player and knowing what the next moves are. So if you haven't yet got to the point where you know what the next moves are, and then you've got kind of like a selection or a suite of next moves that you can pick on, play, play Again, particularly with the chess analogy, if you already know, kind of, if you barely play and you only know a couple of moves, then your toolbox is pretty limited in what you can do. If you're a grandmaster and you know all the moves, then whatever move that person makes, you can immediately think of five possibilities and then you Just pick the best one of those five. So I think for the people who say they have, well, all I've got is people can email me or phone me and that's it. It's a little bit more difficult. I was having a conversation with someone the day before yesterday. I think they actually have quite a bit, but they were struggling to dial in what it should be because the way they were thinking about the tools that they have or the things that they could offer to people, they were thinking about them all in terms of, well, these are courses that I've already got that people can buy or these are things that we do in person. They were having problems translating it. Well, not problems, but the conversation was more around translating it into how it might fit into the book funnel. So there we were talking about, okay, well look at all of the things you do, you do quite a bit already. So what can you take from those and put those in as the next steps? So if you've got courseware, coursework courses that you deliver in person, is there any of the material within that or when you first get to present to these people? These are two day events. Do you have any. The first module that you go through is that kind of like a baselining module to see where people's understanding are or to get everyone on the same page? Is there a way that you can take that and make that available to readers and do it to them as the valuable next to increase their understanding? An example I used on the call was Jim Hacking, who I've mentioned before, has written a couple of immigration based books for their podcast that they have regularly started now is called the Immigration Answers show and they broadcast three times a week or publish shows three times a week. But actually each show is only about five minutes long because they take one immigration based question that they've been sent in and answer that one question as, as they can within the confines of every case being different. But that's something that they're doing already. And this is what I was saying to the guys on the phone with on Thursday. Take something that you're doing already and just see how you can leverage that, see how we can use that in this, in this funnel. Because if you're trying to create something from scratch, if you say, okay, I'm not doing a podcast now, but I want to do a podcast going from zero to a 60 minute show with guests and that's a big, that's a tall order. But going from Nothing to a 10 minute show where you just answering a question or Going through certain points within the module, coursework that you've already got, that's much more achievable than just trying to go in right in the top end to begin with. And I think the same goes for back cover copy. Everyone who's been in business for a year has got a whole load of things that will progress the conversation from the initial stage to the first stage of someone expressing an interest. It might just be taking things that you've already got and repositioning them a bit, or it might be taking things that you don't already have, but you kind of already do in a different way. So, like answering customer questions and then just bundling those together into something that is the logical next step. Customer questions actually is a really great one because the questions that you've got, if you've got a support desk or a support mailbox. Well, even in the conversations that we. We've had, we regularly get the same questions come up time and time again. So knowing what they are and writing something that answers those questions or going a little bit more detailed, this is why we did the titles workshop and the book outline workshop, because those are two of the most regular questions that we get coming through from people who are just finding out about us. All the conversations that we have when we're onboarding, they're the pain points or the bits that need a little bit more diving into because people are less familiar with that. So all of those things are something that people can create that already exist in the business that might just need to be repackaged or repositioned into a slightly different format. Okay, all right. Take another breath. After a long, sorry, paragraph. No sign. It's. I came up without, say, glass of water, and I think I probably should have done. So let's jump back into the. Into the mindset. So I think we've done a pretty good job there of positioning why it's important and talking about a couple of ways that someone should think about it if they're coming to it for the first time. I mean, in the real world, bank of the copies are 99% of the time designed to sell the book. Because a book is on the shelf in the bookstore, someone picks it up, they see the COVID they were compelled to pick it up, they read the back. And the back cover's job of work is to sell the content. So that's one. That's how most people think about back cover copy for us, because we're pushing this in a slightly different way. It's got a different Job of work. We actually know that the majority of people who use books like this are using them in a digital sense or getting people to opt in through a landing page, in which case there's some code, some copy on the page and the copy's job is to sell it slightly. So the back cover has the, has all of this space on the most important or the second most important real estate, so we know we can do something else. So that's why we talk about doing it in a slightly different way. So on the scorecard, the mindsets, as we talked about before, there's four stages as you progress through going from not really having contemplated it before, through to a kind of fully realized, fully orchestrated way to implement each individual mindset. So when we're looking specifically about the mindset number four, the minimum viable commitment call to action, the four stages are beginning with the back cover talks about you and your service with no clear next step for the reader. The next level is you talk about steps in terms of get started now or visit our office for a meeting. But the challenge there is it's a big commitment before you've really established a relationship with the reader. So better than nothing, but still it's a bit, it's not minimum, it's a bit of a big step. So the third level, and this is really where we're starting to resonate before we get into the fourth level, which is really amplifying it. So the third level is you give people the next steps, assuming everyone's had a copy of the book from an opted in list. So that is you assuming that you know them and they know you. The fourth level, the most, the highest level of the mindset is you present a simple minimum viable commitment next step, allowing for people who have a physical copy of the book, so therefore they've got a copy without necessarily coming through a list. So allowing people who have that to opt in and giving a wave for people who are warm but not yet ready to identify themselves as getting started, you give them a way to raise their hand and identify themselves as being warmer from all of the other prospects. So that last one's a bit of a mouthful. I'm going to quickly run over the other three steps and then we'll come back to the last one and just dive into that a little bit more because that's really where you're making the most of that real estate on the back page. So the first one, first level back cover copy, talks about you and your services, but no clear next steps. So this is Sometimes people do a treat the back cover like a traditional book and do a recap of what's in the book and then say as soon as you're ready to get started, give me a call at 555, whatever, or come into the office and we'll arrange a meeting. There's some contact details on that, but it's a big. It's very passive. It's just putting some details there. It's not giving them the next step. It's not necessarily saying, hey, you can learn more by doing this. It's just saying, come into the office and we'll sign you up as a customer. Better than nothing. But it's not great. The next level. You talk in terms of getting started now, but still it's that big commitment to come into the office for a meeting. Maybe it's not even me coming to the office for a free assessments, but that whole if the only next step is for them to come in, then again it's still a big step if you haven't yet established a relationship with them at all. Now, some of the scenarios, again going back to my caveat in tendencies of it depends, there are some scenarios where that might be fine. If you know that you've got a big list already and the job of work of this book is specifically going out to those people, so you do have a relationship, then maybe just having that one call to action which is coming to the office for a particular thing, a particular assessment, and then there's the contacting details, then that might be fine. If you're speaking from stage and you know that this book is only being used in terms of going to that audience and I mean that audience on that day and that audience in all the times to come. So it's worthwhile writing then that having just that one next step might be okay as well, because to a certain degree that narrows their options to do that one thing. And you've already done a lot of the work of building the relationship kind of offline in the scenario before they get to the book. So again, with everything we've said, this is the general approach, but really want to introduce kind of the strategies and the way of thinking about it, not telling people to blindly do this because it does slightly depend on the use case. And really that's the benefit of everything that we talk about on the show is really trying to get people to take action and write and create their book and get it out there. Whether or not people do it with others, do it themselves. And if more people did it themselves, that'd be great too. But the real benefit of obviously working with us is that we've done this for 500 times now and helping people with their independence questions to narrow it down and get the best out of it. That's obviously where it's the most beneficial of working with someone. Okay, so that was number two. So the third level then is you give people the next steps, assuming that everyone has got a copy of it by opting in, therefore you know all these people already. So this level three and level four is really where we're getting into dialing it up and making it the most effective. So we've got a back cover that talks about in terms of next steps that give people the opportunity to get those next steps in a way that doesn't just mean coming into the office, you give people a minimum viable commitment way of getting those next steps of expressing an interest. There's a couple of options in there, but they're all specifically aligned to the same goal, the same outcome. It's not five or six different options. It's thinking about it in terms of a funnel and keeping people on that path moving forward. But there's a risk of assuming that everyone sees that back cover copy. And so obviously everyone in this context, everyone needs to see it because they haven't seen it. It doesn't matter anyway. But you assume that everyone's opted in and they've got a book and you've had a chance to capture their details. Whereas scenarios like Amazon is a classic example. People talk about getting the book on Amazon a lot, but you don't know who any of those contacts are because Amazon never shares those details. You know, one person's bought the book, they don't know which person. So on the back of the copy, including options where people can opt in and request the next thing is a way of capturing the details without frustrating too much people who have already opted in. But it gives people a way of opting in who have just got a physical copy of the book or have been passed a PDF by someone else. So there's a way of capturing details. So rather than just assuming that you've captured all the details already and then the job of working the book is just to move people forward. If you can include a way of capturing further details of people that aren't on the list, that's going to be a great benefit as well. Things like that are great in terms of or in the scenarios of if you're giving the book to a complimentary non competing business so reviews, the example before is pet vitamins and given the books to allow people to give away in vets practices or if you were a makeup stylist and you were giving the books away in a local hair salon, all these things where you can physically get the books in front of people. Having this minimum viable commitment step where people can opt into another list in order to get another thing is a great way of capturing those leads and being able to start the conversation with people who don't necessarily opt in for the first copy of the book. Does that make sense? I've kind of again got that scenario in my mind, but it does jump around a little bit. So hopefully that that makes sense.

Guest: Yeah, no, it does. It does. It makes sense for sure.

Stuart: Perfect. So the last one and just ask this. We could wrap up. I'll finish with an example so people can kind of clearly get to get an understanding of what we're talking about. But the highest level on this particular mindset is presenting a minimum viable commitment. Next step, allowing people who just have a physical copy of the book to opt in to raise their hands and allowing people who have opted in already to identify themselves as warmer as hotter prospects. So again, I mean we went into the majority of that just in the last, in the last option. But if you think about it in terms of how you're actually using your book or predominantly how you're using it, what are the options you've got in all of the scenarios that you're thinking about to A capture more details if people haven't opted into anything in the first place, B for those people who have opted in already to identify themselves as hotter and then C definitely do include an option. And by the way, if you're ready to get started now or if you've got any additional questions, then please reach out to me@stuartighty minutebooks.com definitely give people who. Or if you read on the 90 minute book, if you're ready to get started now, then head over to 90minutebooks.com start and then that's the way to kind of execute and take action now. But if you think about how you're going to use them, the opportunity is to collect the name and address the people who are opted in for those who have to show themselves as being warmer, hotter prospects and then to allow them to take the next step as well. Each one of those levels kind of still being within the same funnel. So it's kind of an escalating level of commitment but within the same funnel. Then that's the perfect use of that back cover real estate. So one of the examples I want to share was on the back of the Breakthrough DNA scorecard, the profit activated scorecard book and the situation in which that's used, that's probably going to be taken on by someone who's a warm lead because we don't market that book externally or we haven't yet at the moment. But what we do do is use it in the funnel for people who've expressed an interest and expressed a preference to be on the entrepreneur list. So these are people who we probably already know but don't necessarily always know. So on the back cover of that book it says, so this is the profit score, it's the scorecard book that's associated with the Breakthrough DNA. So on the back of the book it says here are four ways. Sorry, here are three ways we can help you take your thinking to the next level. Number one, head over to Breakthrough DNA and download a copy of the companion book to this scorecard book. So this is for people who have ended up with a copy of the scorecard but haven't necessarily opted into anything. We just point them back to opt in to request a copy of the Breakthrough DNA book. So that's the kind of the very low commitment option number two. And actually if I was writing this in this scenario, I keep them in this order, but sometimes I'd swap these around. So number two on this list is head over to Breakthrough DNA and watch the introductory video where we talk about the mindsets of the eight profit activators in more detail. So on that site there's an hour long recording from one of the Isle of Marketing episodes where Dean and Joe just run through the 8 profit out of ratio. So again, exactly the same subject but just dived into it a bit deeper. Now this book, this book, because the Breakthrough DNA scorecard is the exact. Sorry. Because the Breakthrough DNA book is the exact companion to the scorecard book. I'd keep these in this order because really the minimum viable commitment thing, if anyone is at all interested in the scorecard, is to grab a copy of the book and read it in more detail talking to the majority of other people. I might be tempted to swap those two round so that the second one head over to the site and watch the video. The kind of real zero commitment next step. I'd maybe be tempted to put that first. So here's the back cover copy. Step number one, if you want to develop your thinking, first is head over to the website where we've got in Fact, we did this on the fingerspace searching most recent immigration book. That's step number one was head over to the website where we've got over 100 hours of other video talking about immigration questions. So zero commitment. They can head over there, learn more about it. Number two on Jim's book is download a free copy of the. I forget exactly how we word it, but basically they've got an assessment or a checklist, sorry, spouse visa checklist. Because the book talks about a lot of the problems come from rejected visa applications because of administrative errors. So a great way to get people to raise their hand, the minimum viable commitment thing is to get them to request a copy of the school the checklist. So that does two things for all the people who are hot, who are really interested in taking it further, it identifies them because they're opting into a checklist about the visa process, which is absolutely the people that he's looking to work with. For the people who've got a physical copy of the book, it's saying okay, you've got a physical copy of the book, we don't know who you are. If you head over here again, if you're hotter prospect, head over here at a small cost of giving you a name and email address. And then we've got those guys on the list and also they've identified themselves as being hotter. So the third one, the number three one on the back of the scorecard book, the Breakthrough DNA scorecard or the Profit activator Scorecard is Join the Breakthrough online program where we go through each of the profit activators in detail and help you create breakthroughs you need to take in your business to get to the next level. So that's a bit of a strong call to action. Our overall programs in that space are more around coaching. So that's multi thousand dollar level. This is a thousand dollar introduction to the program. But there is a strong call to action to say here's what you take next, here's the steps you take next if you're really ready to execute. It also kind of sows the seed that that's the path that should be taken further down the track, even if today is not the day. So going back to Jim's example, I don't have it in front of me at the moment, so I forget what the next step was. But I think the next step was probably call us for a free 15 minute visa assessment or an applicability assessment, something like that. It was again a small free commitment, but one that meant they needed to call and then we had some text at the end saying, and of course if you've got any other questions or, you know, the quickest route is to engage in immigration facility, then give us a call and we'll be happy to get you on board and do what the next steps are. So does that kind of overall make sense, the kind of stages to the process and how to make the best use of that back of the real estate?

Guest: Yeah, definitely, yeah. I think it's all pretty simple. I mean, you know, you have a sort of a scope here of doing, basically doing nothing to really doing something that's valuable, you know.

Stuart: Yeah, and that's a good point as well. I mean, we talk about all of these things and it can be a bit overwhelming. I mean, I was aiming for this to be half an hour, but I think we've already been going for like five minutes. So it can be a bit overwhelming and people can get. What I don't want to do is let this fall into the too difficult camp for people. What we've talked about and really dialing in is something that you can refine over 2, 3, 4 attempts. You don't need to hit the ground running on the first one. It needs to be good enough to get it out there and start collecting leads. Because at the end of the day that's the primary job. If you do just start off with a phone number on the back and that's it. Because really legitimately that all you've got, then that's fine. Version one, get it out there at least. If you're collecting leads for version 2, then the whole process that we're talking about is super simple to make updates as things go on. So if you just throw an option back over copy because you're not thinking about it, then that's probably pretty rubbishy. Think about it a bit more. But if you have considered it and considered option, either because of the use case or because of availability is only the lowest option rather than the highest option, and that's still a good enough answer particularly to start with. There we go.

Guest: Yeah, that was great.

Stuart: Perfect. Anything, can you think of anything there that we were going through that kind of missed or any kind of closing thoughts?

Guest: No, you know, not really. I just, you know, I'm always concerned about the person who has nothing to offer, you know, someone on that back cover. Because if you do have something then, then that's pretty easy, we can sort of figure that out. But that person who comes in and says, yeah, I don't, I don't know, I don't have it. You know, that takes a little bit more work on our part, but we can do it and we help them along with that. But that's always something I'm thinking about with, with people who come on board or who started their new business. It's always my concern.

Stuart: Well, and I think as you're listening to this, if you, if you've listened this far through, you're obviously engaged in it. So I was going to say, if you can't be bothered to think about anything and you don't want to put the work in, then, hey, we can't help you. But if you've listened this far through, then you're pretty engaged in making it as effective as possible. So if anyone's in that position, they're thinking to themselves, I'm really struggling to come up with. I'd love to, but I'm really struggling to come up with what can go on the back. Then shoot me an email to Stuart 90 Minute Books and give me a bit of background. And more than happy to. We can even get people on the show going forward and do a quick session to run through it or if people just want to ask a question, do it offline. Then if, as I say, if you listen this far, you definitely committed. And so shoot me an email to Stuart at 90 Minute Books with what the challenge is and a couple of ideas of what you've got and we can really help get that dialed in with.

Guest: And I would say, don't be afraid, you know, don't, don't let that be something stopping you, you know, for sure. Because we can figure that. We'd have to figure that out for, you know, definitely.

Stuart: And I think even like, worst case scenario, this is the thing that's holding you back. Crack on, just put your phone number on the back and say, hey, hopefully by the time you've read this, you'll understand that here are the three most important points and the thing you want to do next is such and such. So kind of give them something about you, like a brief kind of. If I could only tell you to do one thing, then do this like I was. If we could only do that on the back of the 90 minute book. Again, that use case is slightly different. But if we only had space for one thing or we couldn't think of anything, then it would be, hey, hopefully by reading this you've got a good understanding of how to create a book from doing an outline and then recording the narrative and then getting that edited and Transcribed. If I could give you one piece of advice, the thing I'd concentrate on is really dialing in that title for the audience that you want to engage. Once you're ready to get started, give us a call or reach out to us at 9 Minute Books and buy Now. So even if we could only do that, it would be pick the one thing and then call us. So if this is holding you back, just do that for this version and then see what kind of response, see what the questions are that come back. Give it six months to collect that feedback and by that point, I think you'll have more than enough ideas to kind of dial in and make a future update so that it's even more. Even more refined.

Guest: Very good information.

Stuart: Excellent. Yeah, that was a good show. Hopefully that it is one of the things we get asked about a lot. And it is one of the things that's not necessarily a straightforward answer or like titles. People get that pretty. Although we harp on about it quite a lot, people do get it, it's just sometimes they forget to get it. But back cover copy is one that's a little bit different. So hopefully that was useful. This is show number 50, so dive into the show notes. There's obviously the transcript there, which I think for this one will be quite useful because you can skip around the transcript. So head over to 90minutebooks.com podcast and this is episode 50. So 050. If you do have any questions, or as I say, if you want to just reach out to me about the back cover copy ideas, then just shoot me an email to Stuart at 90 Minute Books. Or if you've got some questions generally or recommendation or suggestions for the podcast or future shows that you want, reach out to us at podcast at 90 Minute Books and we'll pick that up. And as I say, this is what we do day in, day out, helping people find all these ideas. So when you're ready to get started, then just head across to 90minutebooks.com start and all the details about our various programs are up on there and we'll be able to help you get this dialed in on more of a one on one basis. We can do it. Perfect.

Guest: Very good. All right, no problem.

Stuart: Well, enjoy the weekend.

Guest: You too.

Stuart: Catch up with you next time.

Guest: Sounds good. Take care.

Stuart: Perfect. Thanks. Take care.

Guest: Bye bye.

Stuart: It.