Socially Distant Virtually Connected

"Foreign."

Stuart: Welcome to another episode of the book More Show. It's Stuart Bell here and today I'm talking with Betsy Vaughan and why. What a difference a week makes. It was just last week that I was talking with Sam and any thought of lockdowns never really entered the conversation. And this week we're in quite a different place. So we've wanted to make the best of the situation. Definitely uncertain times, but there's a lot of good that we see out there as people as organizations are looking to try and engage customers and add value and make this as least painful as it can be. And one of the interesting things that's really coming up now that we're kind of a week into the stronger restrictions is to see how people are adapting. So this episode, we're looking at some of those examples, some of the opportunities that it presents, and really looking for ways that you can make the most of what is undoubtedly a pretty catastrophic situation in some circumstances to really position yourself to stay engaged with people and then be there once the brakes come off and everything returns to normal with huge air quotes. So hopefully this will be something of a distraction to the, to the other news that's out there. Hopefully there'll be some great ideas that you can take and run with and look forward to getting this out to everyone. As always, if you've got any questions or if there's anything that we can help with, then just shoot us an email and we'll reply. Also, towards the end of the episode, I talk about some Facebook lives that I'm going to do over the coming few days. So if you don't yet follow the Facebook page, just head over to facebook.com 90minutebooks and hit follow and then you'll get an notified when we're going to do the Facebook lives and we're going to go through the eight mindsets of the blueprint scorecard. Just if you're at home trying to think of a book as a way to engage customers, then hopefully this will give you some useful hints and tips and, and, and really just a way for us to share some of our insights with you guys. So with that slightly extended introduction, here's, here's me and Betsy. Betsy Vaughan.

Guest: Hello. How are you?

Stuart: Good, thank you.

Guest: Dog decided when to wrestle with me. He jumped on the bed.

Stuart: Yeah. Wants to be close. Tell him that's not six feet apart.

Guest: Right. That's gonna work. I'm gonna use this for years. Like we're gonna keep our distance still.

Stuart: Well, usually we have a bit of a preamble before we record, but we kind of did that off the conference line. So I think we should just start going today. And things being very different this week from last week. Let's embrace that and do this a little bit differently.

Guest: All right. Okay, let's go.

Stuart: It's a brave new world. So I think today, given how peculiar things are, wanted to mix the show up a little bit and rather than just focus entirely on book related things, which I'm sure we'll reference a lot this last. So we recorded what is it? Friday the 20th today. So I'm back up at home in Pennsylvania. You're down in Florida. A little bit of a different situation going on out and about in the world. So Pennsylvania now or Philadelphia is on. In fact I think the whole of Pennsylvania is on pretty. Although they're not calling it. It's almost the same as the shelter in place in California. All non essential businesses are closed. People working from home. There isn't quite the shelter in place mandate for people. So some people are still out and about just walking around, but it's definitely a move towards that direction. Florida I think is a little bit behind or not quite at that point yet. There's closures unfortunately.

Guest: Yeah, yeah. So we've got, you know, we've got the beaches closed, some of them, but it's not, it's not mandated throughout the entire state. So I think that's really what we're hearing a little bit of complaints about. We have a lot of tourists here right now with spring break season and that folks are wanting to extend their spring break because they have nothing else to do at home. So. So yeah, so we haven't hit, you know, as many closures as I thought. I'm a little surprised that people are still, you know, I've had friends who are in certain industries that the hair industry and massage therapy industry and they're, you know, their businesses have completely shut down because of that one on one contact. So yeah, starting to see it. Yeah, for sure.

Stuart: So over this week, obviously talking with different clients from around the, around the country. Their experiences are all, all pretty different as that's a moving pict. But what I wanted to look to talk about today is this idea of what people are doing both in the US and around the world to kind of take this, embrace this virtual idea and a from the point of view of kind of just social wellness what people are doing to put stuff out in the world and, and how they're giving value or giving content to both customers and non customers and then Kind of bridging that or kind of expanding that into, okay, well this is probably going to be the new reality definitely for weeks, probably for months, and hopefully not much longer than that. But what people are doing to embrace the virtual world and how that can bridge into client work at the end of the day, because we all need to move from whatever the old model was to the current model. And whilst there are certain industries which, as you say, it's very difficult to have any idea of a massage therapy business doing any work whilst there's social distancing in place, but a number of other businesses, financial advisors that we talk about a lot, I mean, even florists and flower delivery companies in theory, that could continue to work. I'm trying to think of those examples that are kind of on the edge of not very obviously unaffected or potentially unaffected, but not in a kind of shutdown state like a restaurant with no takeout would be. So, yeah, so it'd be interesting to talk about that.

Guest: I think it's a great, great time to talk about it.

Stuart: So the ones that sprung to mind immediately or got me thinking about this last night is Lucy's obviously at home as well here Yesterday she was doing a virtual Pilates class with, with a friend of hers who's a Pilates instructor. So that was a Zoom call that they'd dialed into the CrossFit gym that I'm a member of up here. They've had to, they've been closed now for a week. So they lent or signed out some equipment to all of the members, just like dumbbells and kettlebells, that type of thing. And Matt. And they've been running. Yeah, they've been running Zoom classes. So they online had like most CrossFit gyms, I think online had listed their workout of the day, but they've augmented that by the day before doing a video, like a guided warm up and, and movement video and then actually once a day doing a Zoom class as well. So those were some the ideas that made me first think about it. And then last night Lucy was talking about Philadelphia Zoo. This week they're doing guided tours where they're picking one animal or one area a day and then having the. I was gonna say wardens. They're not wardens. What you call the who, the people look after the animals.

Guest: Yeah, the caretakers.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah, thank you.

Guest: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stuart: That's what the actual word is. So the keepers from the zoo are going around and getting kind of in depth look at the animals, which is really something that you Wouldn't get otherwise. Even doing tours physically at the zoo where the people, they do like the show and tell in the walk around, you don't get opportunity to see that behind the scenes image. You don't get the one on one interaction that you get in with the, with the animal keepers who actually know intimately each individual animal and they've got the time now to do it on a, on a broadcast, on a webinar type sense.

Guest: Yeah, it's really, I mean it's really, it's fun for the time now because I know people, you know, I work from home, so this is, this is my norm. So I don't have that sense of, oh my gosh, I can't escape. You know, this is what I do most days, you know, from eight to six. So this is, it's these options that are popping up, you know, with the zoos and all the fitness classes. But I, it's hard for me to do a fitness class in my living room because I have three dogs that think that because I'm on the floor. So it's, it's very interesting when I'm screaming, trying to do, you know, some

Stuart: sit ups and there's like a variation on ufc.

Guest: Exactly. So, so, yeah, so. But just having all these options I think is so, so great that people, you know, can do things and nobody should be bored at this point. I mean there really are now. You can't go shopping and you can't, you're not going to school. But there's so much that's going on. I had shared, I've watched several concerts that just sort of started with Chris Martin and Cole from Coldplay. He did one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so then like he challenged John Legend to do it. And then. So John Legend did one and he challenged, I think Charlie Puth. And so it's kind of. Now it's going on. So I've watched several concerts, you know, and they're just, it's as many, you know, 10 songs, but it's just an experience, something different. Somebody. I may not have never seen John Legend in concert, so, you know, it's kind of fun to sit and see him doing those things. And just that interaction, you know, is kind of nice. And so I have a couple of other ones that I heard about and so those are lined up. I love music, so that's something fun, you know, for me it's interesting how

Stuart: technology plays a part as well. So with Dean was talking about, he was on a, on a group with Tacky Moore when they were doing one of their black belt presentations from their groups out of Australia. So the virtual meeting that they had was on Zoom. He we were talking this morning and he was saying that it was a pretty seamless, in fact for him a superior experience because there was no travel involved and all that type of headache. The actual experience of being in the room because the screen was shared in a way that all the attendees could see each other. There was the presentation that the on screen stuff that would previously maybe have been taken just scribbling on a piece of paper or doing something on a projected screen that is in a room. And we've all been in conferences where the projected screens, I mean it's never as bright as just looking at the desktop in front of you. So practically speaking, seeing what was being talked about was clearer. They would then have breakout sessions which were seamlessly facilitated. So of the I don't know how many members there were, but Dean was describing it as there were several breakout groups to discuss and go into the the particular point that was being talked about. Now I'm sure you've been to events as have I as of people listening where at the point of a breakout or that type of thing, either two things happen. Either it's five minutes worth of turn to the person next to you and describe it. Which is somewhat forced and noisy and isn't the most practical of things to do. If you're there with someone that you know, you're always talking to the same people. If they break out for a longer session into other rooms, then you lose 10 minutes on either side just corralling people in and out of a room to break out. Whereas this was immediately available, it was immediately split. It was taken and split in a way that means each group was split into. They didn't know who they were going to get separated and talk to. So each one of the breakout sessions was with a different group of people. It was immediately available. So it's really just a much more practical way of delivering things. So point being that the technology that's available is makes it much more seamless and much more of an option than even five years ago. You were talking about the concerts that the guys were doing on Facebook Live and Instagram Live Instagram maybe not, but Facebook certainly you can have shared. I forget what they call it, but there's like shared watching experiences where within your group you can coordinate the watching of something that's within your group and still have that shared experience with your group of friends, but just delivered in a virtual way.

Guest: You Know, it's interesting. I think a lot of people, I think are hesitant to jump into that whole virtual thing. You know, people, I think old school, they want to be in the same room sitting around that table. And so I think this is one of those, it's going to force our hand, you know, in order to get things done in the workplace that, you know, people who may not have done in the past are going to have to jump in if they want to continue, you know, certain businesses or just, you know, meeting like financial guys, meeting with clients. And that's not an option at this point. So, you know, if you can set it up to do that, I think it's going to open up a whole world for a lot of people, you know.

Stuart: Yeah, it's been so interesting. So one of my coaching clients is a financial guy up in, in

Guest: Michigan.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah. So just completely bankrupt. Yeah, up there. So they're not in a lockdown. They've, they are still, they're in the office, working from the office. They've still got clients coming in, but they do a lot of class based stuff. And obviously the last one or the most recent one they had was last night. The attendance of that was down 60%. I think just because people are voluntarily not wanting to go into that environment. And we'd been talking in the week before about moving it to a virtual option and this really now has kind of force their hand, but forced it in a way that's going to be so much more beneficial because we were already talking before any of this started about the capacity constraints and the overhead of running the physical things and just the limitations of it. So we were looking at a way of trying to exponentially grow that. And obviously digital delivery is a way of achieving that. But even for their one on one onboarding meetings, they were very much of a mindset that even if we virtualized some of the class stuff, all of the onboarding still needed to be person to person. But they had their first virtual onboarding on what they were now Friday, so it must have been Wednesday. So some people were scheduled to come into the office. They decided they didn't want to make it. So the guy said, well, let's do it, let's do it online instead. And they went through all the same stuff and had a successful outcome. They onboarded the people as clients.

Guest: That's awesome. Yeah.

Stuart: And that experience and even that was, I was saying to them, so Monday we're going to do the first virtual class on Monday. I said, it's such a great Opportunity because we'd already done some of the work to move it towards that. The on the in person stuff, the meetings really drifted towards three hours and that doesn't work in a. People's attention isn't that great for. For just online stuff. So we'd already done some of the work towards condensing it and kind of separating out what needs to be delivered now compared with what can be done later. But I said, you've really got the benefit of whatever you do on Tuesday, on Monday, sorry. Is going to have goodwill from the audience because everyone knows that everyone's kind of laying the track as they go for the next couple of weeks. This is best endeavors all around as opposed to if you just try to do this three months ago and the online experience wasn't crystal clear and perfectly smooth, then people would be less willing to accept that because there isn't where we are now and everyone's trying to do their best. You don't get that goodwill coming across. So now, if anything is a great time to. Because one of the debates was, okay, well should we just pull the next class and then come April, we'll see where we are and try and get a virtual one there. But it really is anything that you can do immediately just has this added benefit of you're shown willing at trying to do best endeavors of sharing some information with people in the best way possible. And people are going to be much more forgiving to technical glitches than they would be without this. And then, April, you've got one or two of them under your belt.

Guest: That's great. That's great. It'll be interesting to follow the people you're talking about and see how it all ends up for them. Like you said, somebody who's done it before. And I wonder if you're somebody who's used to doing business this way. And there are people, it seems like a lot of our clients who are like in Australia and other places, pretty much Australia, they all want to have, you know, Skype phone calls with me always, you know, that or zoom or that. So it seems to be a big thing. So I wonder if like you tend to at this point, like, okay, I'm gonna blow it off because that's just. It's not a new thing. Or if you're. You're at home, I don't want to do that now because I'm in my pajamas or the kids are running around or, you know, if it'll change that dynamic. But people who are new to it, you know, like you said it's kind of, it's sort of, it's a new thing. There's some flexibility and people will give a little bit of grace because of technical difficulties and people had all these things planned and they want to continue doing things they have nothing else to do. They're at home. And so maybe those people will.

Stuart: Necessities, right? Necessity, such the mother of invention. I mean it really does remove objections because it gets to the point where there's no other choice. There was, I think it was a Washington Post article yesterday that was looking just. It kind of. I don't really keep up on the news that much. I'll just kind of drop into Apple News every now and then and see which are the, what are the headlines. So I think there was a story now where they about 30 people saying okay, what do you think the long term differences will be here? And they were talking about social dynamics and healthcare. It might force their hand on healthcare and some things like that. But one of the points they were making was about technology and the adoption of technology and how. And again this was something that Dean mentioned when we were chatting this morning saying that if you look back in history, big external threats or, or forced changes that kind of stretch the envelope on what people are used to, it's then very rarely that the things that make things more convenient go back to a previous state. So where what happens in the next six months? A lot of the things which now turn out to be more convenient that people were just resistant to try because of normal apathy or resistance or fear of change, all of those types of things because it's now forced that bubble envelope will expand to meet the, the new paradigm. So I think options for not for everything because we were talking about this before offline, before we jumped on to record the podcast, but we were talking about this idea of what now becomes virtual and what is still physical. As far as meetings and conferences goes, I think there's still definitely a place for the physical things going forwards because there is something inescapably good about having eye to eye contact with someone, but that's not the case for everything. And like you were saying with the guys in Australia, even coming from the uk, I mean it's much more used I the circle. It's much more used in the UK because you're dealing with like with Australia, you're dealing with people in the US so often that you have to employ technology because you're not going to place a long distance call from Australia to the US when you could Just do them on Skype and have a much clearer line for a fraction of the cost, if anything.

Guest: So, you know, you think about, you talking about going forward, you know, five, six, eight months down the road, and I think people will have the thought that, oh, no, we'll just do this temporarily, you know, because of the circumstances. But when you start to try to have those in person meetings and you become custom over the course of, you know, three to six months of doing them this way, you know, it really opens up so much more. Not just for now, but for down the road. You know, you can have that option of let's do it virtually because we've had that situation, but if we have to do it in house, okay. You know, occasionally that's gonna bring itself up. But even if, like, weather changes, you know, how many things get canceled? I live in Florida. Florida. So things get canceled for weather or the thought of weather. And so but, you know, but you're, you're someplace and things have to, you know, oh my gosh, the weather's bad, or, you know, there's a potential hurricane, don't anybody leave, or snowstorm or whatever. Oh, you know what, let's just do this online. And I think people are going to be more comfortable doing this virtually, you know, down the road. It won't be a, oh, we just need to cancel completely kind of thing. It'll just be, stay where you are and let's, let's get down to business. So it will be interesting to follow and see.

Stuart: Yeah, absolutely. And I think like you were saying, the, the fact that people have to jump through those hoops now to get it set up, that 20 units of effort to get something set up has to be spent now because there's no way around it. But the fortunate thing is you don't have to spend that 20 units every time. Once it's set up, it can then just be two units of it, effort to execute, whereas doing something live might take five units of effort. So a net win over the long term. I think with that in mind, this idea of what is happening now that you can benefit from long term as far as your business goes, strategizing and thinking about the end goal is the next step. So where we are at the moment and probably for the next week or two, we're really in survival mode in the sense that a lot of things are changing very quickly. And like with Pennsylvania, I mean, last week it was really the case of, okay, this is closed now, this is closed now, this is closed. So you take the Even just the gym as an example. Just because I was kind of in tune with all of their messages. It was okay, we've got enhanced cleaning. When you come in, make sure you wash your hands. Okay, now we're putting distant. We're limiting the classes to 15 people so that there's definitely people aren't sharing equipment and the spacing between everyone to okay, now we're taking drop ins when you're taking members to now. Okay, we've got reduced hours. Now we're closed like every day. It was something, something, something. Yeah, there was only one underlying issue but still the symptoms of it were being thrust in your face every day. And that's the same for magnify that against all businesses across all states as they're moving. So now we're getting to a stage where okay, once we go into. There's only two stages from where we are now really. Pennsylvania as I said, has gone into kind of a shelter in place type model. Not quite as explicit as California's but we're only one step before that. So that's one step. And then after that the only other possible option is that there's a quantity where people can't go out and there's no food delivery or there's no, you can't go to the grocery stores or anything. Now that is very impractical for a number of reasons. So I doubt it would get to that. So we're almost at the end game of it. Can't go out for anything apart from essential stuff, can't go to the office, need to work from home. So although we're in and states that are a little bit behind the curve on that, we'll need to get to that point. But once we've got to that point, we now come out of the survival mode type stuff into the okay, this is the new reality. So in that survival mode everyone's partly thinking about okay, well what can we do to keep business going and just dealing with the consequences of what the difference is? So the next step is to think about that in a bit more of an orchestrated way. So with this being the new reality, what can we do to best position it so it's going to be the most successful over the coming months assuming nothing changes. So sticking with the example of the financial advisor guys, just because that example I think is using that as an example, it's easier for people to comprehend and understand and then switch it into your own business as as we're talking about it. I guess a quick caveat before we go on though is the unavoidable sympathy for people who absolutely have physical based businesses where it's very difficult to do anything else. I mean even for those without wanting to sound glib about it and say, oh, there's an always, there's always a way through. It's that it's an opportunity to try and find the best alternative or the least bad alternative. So if it is like a massage therapist is the one I think about, okay, what can you possibly do there? If people aren't actually coming in, but they may be doing stuff online where you're delivering stuff to customers they can't actually come in to get fixed, there might be an absolute revenue crunch at some point. But in the meantime, if you can keep that engagement going in the hopes that this is short lived, enough so that you can survive through the emergency, emergency times and then come out ready to go on the other side of it when people are free to come back in. But for that group of people, even delivering like manual release therapy, like people massaging themselves or using foam rollers or using a cork from a wine bottle to release wrists, anything that you can do to help self guide people and keep that engagement there until you are, until they are able to come back in.

Guest: Well, you know, it's funny you're saying that I brought up the massage therapist because my massage therapist, you know, she's a one man band and she's a single mom and so I, I literally have worried about her so much, you know, like thinking what, what is she gonna do? And I, you know, I didn't even, I mean I truly, I mean I've been trying to think about like what can I do? I can go buy a gift certificate or two from her, you know, but I'm just one person, you know, but really I think that would be a great, you know, she has a great Facebook page and that would be a great way to stay connected, you know, put some stuff out and make some suggestions and I'm just gonna reach out, I'm gonna give you full credit for all that. But I'm gonna say, listen, we were talking and Stuart said and so.

Stuart: Right.

Guest: You know, give her some ideas. Really, because like the big names like I have, I go to a national trained gym and they have just, you know, like same thing, they bombarded me with emails and they're all over Facebook and they're not just for members but they've opened, you know, if you go to their Facebook page, they're doing everyday exercise, you know, they've got somebody on there, you know that live doing it. And so I think that staying connected, it's really going to be key to survival for so many people. You know, I think that for the

Stuart: financial advisor guys, we sent out a mail, it's gone out today actually with they as well as working with us and working with me, they have connections with a whole number of other financial advisor training type organizations. So there was another big group of, there was another marketing group that had sent out a templated message saying, hey, you should send this to all of your clients. And it was, I think it was either Monday or Tuesday. So it was after the markets were crashing pretty badly and the message was just full of fear and doom and markets are crashing. It's unprecedented. You absolutely have to do something now and it's going to be catastrophic. And if you don't do something now, you'll regret it. All of this. And we're saying that's not the message to send out. If that was me as a recipient of that, I would unsubscribe straight away. So there's always that caveat of necessarily want personal opinion to cover the actual statistical results. And that email or an email like that would definitely get a response. But what can we do? So the thing that we're trying to do is send out a communication piece to show thought leadership to the people who know like and trust you. And at uncertain, scary times are looking for sense of certainty or hope or just something that they can grab onto as a rock in a storm type thing. So instead we sent out a message that was saying first of all, hope that you're not directly affected from it. These are scary times. But we've got through this before. By now I'm sure you've got plenty of information about the medical side of things. So I just want to concentrate on the financial side of things because that's what we're experts in. At times like this. There are some things you can do something about and some things you can't do something about. So it's, it's beneficial to concentrate on those things that you can address and then just let go of the things that you can't. The reason I mentioned that is exactly the same for the massage therapist. And I think about Sandy in, in Winterhaven, who I don't know that you've seen Sandy, but Dean Luba see Sandy. I see Sandy when I'm down there. Dick and Lillian, all of our group of people know Sandy pretty well and her business is exactly as you were describing your therapist. It's all literally hands on stuff. So if people can't come in, I know this isn't the case in Florida yet, but if people can't physically come in, if you can't go to see them, then that's nothing you can do about that. But what you can do is do things to position yourself as best as possible so that as soon as the brakes are off, as soon as people are released, then you're in a position to move forward. So by staying in contact with people, by giving them stuff to do themselves, because at the end of the day, what else are you going to do? I mean, you could sit at home and do nothing, but that's not particularly practical either. So trying to get ahead of it and do something, even if that something is terrible, but it's one better than catastrophic. So I mean, again.

Guest: Right. Well, I think it also when you're busy, I mean, I know you feel this way, but like, you know, an idle mind is, is dangerous, you know, as far as I'm concerned, you know. So I think if you, if you're in an industry where you can't go to work or you physically can't see clients or what have you been, like you said, doing something, even if it's small and it may not be the prettiest and it might, you know, but doing something I think kind of keeps you in that mindset of work. And I think if you're stressed about it, it might be a way to take some of that relief off of you, you know, that you're like, okay, what am I going to do? How am I going to pay bills? Or I need to keep moving and just, you know, sort of keep that positive, like yourself. If I got an email that was all doom and gloom, I would be okay, I'm finished with that, you know. Yeah.

Stuart: Particularly at the moment because on the one hand it seems like it's jumping on the bandwagon of fear of just putting a coronavirus name on the top of everything, which isn't necessarily accurate.

Guest: Yeah, yeah.

Stuart: But then on the other hand, there's enough bad news around. So the, if the objective, the objective of that marketing piece is to be in front of someone to a certain degree, I don't know whether this is the intent or not. I think mainly it's the intent of that email with the way it was written was to be in front of someone and try and use fear and scarcity as a motivator for taking action. Now that's just not the way we work with that. Doesn't resonate with us at all. So it was never going to be. I was never going to be too enthusiastic about it. But the other up the using the idea of okay, now is a point in time where we can be in front of people. And the timing on that is interesting because you need to be mindful of that timing being as good as it can be. So as an example, the same group of people we sent out an email on Friday talking about an upcoming event, the radio silence. There was no response to it at all because what else happened on late on Friday and Saturday, everything started shutting down. I flew back up to Philly on Friday and the last I saw you on Friday morning, the difference between Friday morning and Monday morning, I mean, holy cow. That weekend was like a month's worth of change. So the timing piece is definitely important, but you can't always control that. So sending something out that's as timely as possible with a not being kind of tone deaf to everything else that's going on, but also the what then goes out and you've got the choice of sending out something that is, that is adding to the fear or something that provides thought leadership and positivity and a way for someone to start to take that action. Yeah, with those guys, I'm conscious that you need to head off. We're kind of running up against time today. But one thing I just quickly wanted to say was this idea of the next phase. So where we are at the moment and next week, depending on where you are in the country and the specifics, we're kind of on the edge of that. Scary. We're dealing with the crisis situation as it's all changing so quickly and moving into, okay, this is the new reality and what do we need to do to best position it? So one of the things that we were working on with the financial advisors is, okay, we're moving to an online model. We know that in the event space, as we're doing the retirement planning classes, then the main conversion step is the individual. The staff are talking to people and booking them in there and then at the meeting to the one on one in office meetings where we actually go through their numbers. So that's obviously not going to happen because we're not physically there. We know that people's attention is going to be different in the physical environment, on the online environment. So we've got the opportunity of the people who have stayed on the line to the end and we've got the opportunity of people who have dropped off. But we've got, we can follow up with them by email. But knowing that the outcome is still the same, that we still want to do this one on one work with people now, whether that is now online or physically in the office, that doesn't matter so much. But the, the event that we want, this minimum viable commitment to the next step is a commitment to spend time and go through one on one on the numbers. Knowing that as the outcome in the thing that we create as the online course, we can now sow the seeds of that language throughout the course. So when we're talking and describ things, we can describe them saying, okay, so theoretically here are the numbers that needs to be important. Obviously it really where the rubber meets the road is where we're looking at your numbers and for you or vary. So in the next step we'll go through the one on one, we'll go through the practical part of this course as we're looking at your numbers and then we'll be able to plug in exactly what your number is here and number is here. And then depending on what the outcome is, that will impact what the recommendation is. So this idea of. And this is where we'll leave it, but this idea of we're in a critical moment where we're scrambling around to do something both from a social good point of view and just give people value and really contribute to society, but also from a marketing or business point of view to stay in touch and stay front of mind with people in the next couple of days or the next week, just do anything. Anything is better than nothing. But then as we're moving into the new reality of how we're kind of trying to maximize this effort and A delivery the best value, but B guide people towards that next minimum viable commitment step that leads them towards where we want people to go. Then think about orchestrating it as the chess player, as the. What are the three moves ahead that we want them to do that is going to be best for them to do? And then how do we work that back and include that in the language of the thing that we're creating now in the moment? Does that make sense?

Guest: Yeah, it does. And I think it's going to be interesting to see, you know, to follow this over the next few months and see how things turn out.

Stuart: Yeah.

Guest: In the long run.

Stuart: So necessity is definitely the mother invention. I think. So will I know that you've got it, you've got to head out. So we'll leave it there in the, in the, in the spirit of kind of giving people value In a time that they're at home. I think what I'm going to do is do a couple of Facebook lives over the next week or two and just run through the book blueprint scorecard. So as people start coming to terms with a different timescale than working through the. If you've got a book on the mind, whether you're doing it with us or doing it yourself, then the scorecard is a great way. And for us, it's a really valuable thing that we can give to you to work through and help contextualize these ideas that create a great book. So I'm going to do a Facebook Live over the next couple of days, or a couple of Facebook lives addressing the eight mindsets. So if you're not following the 90 Minute Books Facebook group, the page, sorry, then head over to. I'll put a link in the show notes as well, but obviously facebook.com forward/90minute books and then just hit like and follow there and you'll get the notification of when we go live. And if you've got any questions in the meantime, then we're obviously here. Like Betsy was saying, we're working from home anyway, so just shoot us a message to other support or hello at 90 Minute Books and we'll be here to answer any questions that you've got. And whatever will help, we can be happy to provide that help.

Guest: Fantastic.

Stuart: Alrighty. Well, thanks, everyone. Chin up, as they say in the uk, and wash your hands.

Guest: Very healthy.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And will be here to tell people if you've got any questions. So just give us a shout. Otherwise, like I say, keep an eye on the Facebook page and I'll be doing those Facebook lives on the scorecard. In the meantime, Betsy, thanks for your time.

Guest: Always a pleasure.

Stuart: Thanks, everyone for listening and we'll catch you in the next one.